I didn't mean to buy a GAD Guild today at Elderly
- Thread starter Lickety Split
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Benee Wafers
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Slightly off topic. My GAD 40C has arrived. I have taken it to the luthier for set up and a change of strings.
The strings is the question. Guild recommends their strings, in this case .12 to .52 L350 Phosphor Bronze.
The stores I checked have no Guild strings in stock. The luthier has recommended Elixer mediums which are apparently .13 to .53
I am a flat picker,I strum vigorously and prolly have a heavy picking style. I like my action low but want no buzz and the ability to perform blues bends on the barre A to barre E postions.
I know that strings boils down, like guitars themselves, to personal preference however I am lookng for advice, suggestions on which strings to get. I would like you purists out there to pretend, just for a second, that I am playing a Westerly Guild and tell me what strings you have had the best results with.
Thanks . I appreciate it.
Benee Wafers
The strings is the question. Guild recommends their strings, in this case .12 to .52 L350 Phosphor Bronze.
The stores I checked have no Guild strings in stock. The luthier has recommended Elixer mediums which are apparently .13 to .53
I am a flat picker,I strum vigorously and prolly have a heavy picking style. I like my action low but want no buzz and the ability to perform blues bends on the barre A to barre E postions.
I know that strings boils down, like guitars themselves, to personal preference however I am lookng for advice, suggestions on which strings to get. I would like you purists out there to pretend, just for a second, that I am playing a Westerly Guild and tell me what strings you have had the best results with.
Thanks . I appreciate it.
Benee Wafers
SmithfieldFair
Member
Black eyed Guilds
First - Benee - I, too, am a "vigorous" rhythm player and I tend to favor medium guage (13-53) - but I have to qualify and say that I play in open C and D, so the tension is a wee bit lower. But, I purchase strings in bulk from String This and know that they are Martins. I use the 80/20 rather than the phosphor, as the phosphor "shine" sound dulls pretty quickly and I find it abrasive anyway. I would recommend you get a set of medium 80/20 bronze strings - D'Addario, Martin are good - John Pearce strings are great - and give them a test.
Dkl - You crack me up, but, as usual - your gyro is spot on and you hit the mark again.
Now the rest of you can tune out if you wish. Dred - Aye, the black one is my 1988 GF25. I also have, as you've seen, a 1987 GF25. These two are as different as night and day with the 88 deeper by an inch at the lower bout and the sound is as dark and dusky as the finish (which is slowly flaking off on the arched back to reveal a beautiful piece of mahogany - come on flake!). The 87 has an extremely fast neck and a sweeter, lighter sound. I asked both George Gruhn (the guitar's designer) and Jay "The Guild Guy" Pilzer why the two are so different only a year apart - why were the specs changed. George admitted the guitar was released in 87 just before his departure from Guild and he had no idea the specs were changed. He deferred to Jay, whom I had already submitted the question to. Jay agreed with me - Westerly was ALWAYS a player's shop and someone probably came in, said 'this model is great, but can you do this for me, and the changes stuck.
I like the 88 better for a stage guitar on the road. For years, I used my G37/D25. It's a monster and so-o-o achingly gorgeous sounding. But, I feared for it's well being (I've used it on every album I've ever done as the principal guitar and in session work from LA to Boulder, to Nashville to the East Coast) as I could never replace it if stolen or damaged AND sometimes, it seemed too powerful, too much sound, nearly overwhelming. So, I bought a 94 D4 to replace it, but quickly found it had too much sound too. At that time, I bought my wife her M20 and she gave me the black 88 GF25. It was perfect on the road and gets a fair amount of use in the studio. The 87 is being used by my studio lead guitarist and he says he has that and his 73 Martin D35 in the studio. People come in, play both and almost to a player choose the Guild for the studio work.
But, partially thanks to Hans Moust and John Kidder here at the site, I was alerted to an 89 GF25 on Ebay. I was the high bidder, but the reserve hadn't been met (I believe I was close). I checked with the seller and at this point, they say it's mine - send them the money. When they email me the total with shipping, I will send the money. Why do I want another? Well, the 88 is kept in open C (CGCEGC) and the G37/D25 is in open D (Vestapol/Richie Havens DADF#AD). Since I fear to take the 75 G37/D25 on the road, the 89 will replace it and, I believe, be the perfect road counterpoint without the overwhelming sound.
Thanks for asking - as you know - Guild people really love to talk about their Guilds...eh, DKL?!?!?! Best to you all. dbs
Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair
First - Benee - I, too, am a "vigorous" rhythm player and I tend to favor medium guage (13-53) - but I have to qualify and say that I play in open C and D, so the tension is a wee bit lower. But, I purchase strings in bulk from String This and know that they are Martins. I use the 80/20 rather than the phosphor, as the phosphor "shine" sound dulls pretty quickly and I find it abrasive anyway. I would recommend you get a set of medium 80/20 bronze strings - D'Addario, Martin are good - John Pearce strings are great - and give them a test.
Dkl - You crack me up, but, as usual - your gyro is spot on and you hit the mark again.
Now the rest of you can tune out if you wish. Dred - Aye, the black one is my 1988 GF25. I also have, as you've seen, a 1987 GF25. These two are as different as night and day with the 88 deeper by an inch at the lower bout and the sound is as dark and dusky as the finish (which is slowly flaking off on the arched back to reveal a beautiful piece of mahogany - come on flake!). The 87 has an extremely fast neck and a sweeter, lighter sound. I asked both George Gruhn (the guitar's designer) and Jay "The Guild Guy" Pilzer why the two are so different only a year apart - why were the specs changed. George admitted the guitar was released in 87 just before his departure from Guild and he had no idea the specs were changed. He deferred to Jay, whom I had already submitted the question to. Jay agreed with me - Westerly was ALWAYS a player's shop and someone probably came in, said 'this model is great, but can you do this for me, and the changes stuck.
I like the 88 better for a stage guitar on the road. For years, I used my G37/D25. It's a monster and so-o-o achingly gorgeous sounding. But, I feared for it's well being (I've used it on every album I've ever done as the principal guitar and in session work from LA to Boulder, to Nashville to the East Coast) as I could never replace it if stolen or damaged AND sometimes, it seemed too powerful, too much sound, nearly overwhelming. So, I bought a 94 D4 to replace it, but quickly found it had too much sound too. At that time, I bought my wife her M20 and she gave me the black 88 GF25. It was perfect on the road and gets a fair amount of use in the studio. The 87 is being used by my studio lead guitarist and he says he has that and his 73 Martin D35 in the studio. People come in, play both and almost to a player choose the Guild for the studio work.
But, partially thanks to Hans Moust and John Kidder here at the site, I was alerted to an 89 GF25 on Ebay. I was the high bidder, but the reserve hadn't been met (I believe I was close). I checked with the seller and at this point, they say it's mine - send them the money. When they email me the total with shipping, I will send the money. Why do I want another? Well, the 88 is kept in open C (CGCEGC) and the G37/D25 is in open D (Vestapol/Richie Havens DADF#AD). Since I fear to take the 75 G37/D25 on the road, the 89 will replace it and, I believe, be the perfect road counterpoint without the overwhelming sound.
Thanks for asking - as you know - Guild people really love to talk about their Guilds...eh, DKL?!?!?! Best to you all. dbs
Dudley-Brian Smith
Smithfield Fair
SmithfieldFair
Member
Michigan
Dred - I forgot...yes, we occasionally play in Michigan - last time was a private affair in Alma and it was terrific. Perhaps we'll come again in the near future, but nothing on the books at this time. dbs
Dred - I forgot...yes, we occasionally play in Michigan - last time was a private affair in Alma and it was terrific. Perhaps we'll come again in the near future, but nothing on the books at this time. dbs
Benee Wafers
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Thank you DBS. I'll certainly keep the D'Addario and John Pearce in mind although I have never heard of JP.
I'll do a web search and will also check out String This on line.
Anyone else out there with perhaps a line on the Elixir strings?
Benee
I'll do a web search and will also check out String This on line.
Anyone else out there with perhaps a line on the Elixir strings?
Benee
john_kidder
Senior Member
John Pearse man here, for my acoustics. Bronze, not phospho. I take the two treble strings on a standard bluegrass up one size for e little extra kick. On the other hand, I'm a fingerpicker, so what do I know anyway?
Ellixirs and the others with plastic filler sound like the JPs after they've been played hard for a few days. For my ears, always just a bit dull, as is they might be a flatwound string without amplification. On the other hand, they then stay that way for weeks and weeks, while the regular bronze strings die off. Lots of folks like 'em lots.
Ellixirs and the others with plastic filler sound like the JPs after they've been played hard for a few days. For my ears, always just a bit dull, as is they might be a flatwound string without amplification. On the other hand, they then stay that way for weeks and weeks, while the regular bronze strings die off. Lots of folks like 'em lots.
Benee Wafers
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Thank you DKL. I have ordered a set of Pearce and D'Addario.
I can always call the luthier off from the Elixirs as they are costing 20 bucks. Why not Elixirs, in your opnion. What didn't they do for you?
Benee Wafers
I can always call the luthier off from the Elixirs as they are costing 20 bucks. Why not Elixirs, in your opnion. What didn't they do for you?
Benee Wafers
Benee Wafers
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Thank you John.
BW
BW
Benee Wafers
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Is the switch from the Guild recommended .12 to .52 to the heavier gauge .13 to .53 Elixirs a cause for worry with regards to excess strain on the guitar? Standard tuning.
Benee Wafers
Benee Wafers
john_kidder
Senior Member
re: why not Elixirs?
I bought a few sets of Elixirs when they first came out - they do last a long time without much change in sound quality, they have a more slippery feel with less squeak as fingers slide. But: they are noticeably less bright in the early going, and they don't seem (to my ear) to have the same harmonic richness throughout the life as does a straight metal string, and when they do start to wear out the little plastic hairy bits hanging off the strings are less than perfect from an aesthetic p.o.v. And I have no experience with them as an aggressive flat-picker - that might be entirely different.
If you're fine with the sound, and many are, then the $20 bucks a set needs to be compared to (say) $6-8 bucks for others that may last a third or half as long. All depends on your playing style, are you gigging, recording, etc. If you're just a amateur hacker like me, then the Elixirs may be just fine.
And of course, like the rest of the folks here, I'm beginning to learn how inherently conservative many music folks are: I was the first manager of computer music for Roland in Canada in the early 80s, pushing brand new technology which was not then ready for the market. Lots of resistace to new stuff, some fears of displacement, etc., but the big changes did happen and they continue to happen around us. Here, among players of instruments made of, are you ready, actual WOOD, it seems to me that once a pattern is set it's rarely changed (3 GF-25s, for instance, in Dudley-Brian's case). So I'll keep buying Guilds, and stringing them with the JP bronze, until something really dramatic happens to shift me.
Cheerds
I bought a few sets of Elixirs when they first came out - they do last a long time without much change in sound quality, they have a more slippery feel with less squeak as fingers slide. But: they are noticeably less bright in the early going, and they don't seem (to my ear) to have the same harmonic richness throughout the life as does a straight metal string, and when they do start to wear out the little plastic hairy bits hanging off the strings are less than perfect from an aesthetic p.o.v. And I have no experience with them as an aggressive flat-picker - that might be entirely different.
If you're fine with the sound, and many are, then the $20 bucks a set needs to be compared to (say) $6-8 bucks for others that may last a third or half as long. All depends on your playing style, are you gigging, recording, etc. If you're just a amateur hacker like me, then the Elixirs may be just fine.
And of course, like the rest of the folks here, I'm beginning to learn how inherently conservative many music folks are: I was the first manager of computer music for Roland in Canada in the early 80s, pushing brand new technology which was not then ready for the market. Lots of resistace to new stuff, some fears of displacement, etc., but the big changes did happen and they continue to happen around us. Here, among players of instruments made of, are you ready, actual WOOD, it seems to me that once a pattern is set it's rarely changed (3 GF-25s, for instance, in Dudley-Brian's case). So I'll keep buying Guilds, and stringing them with the JP bronze, until something really dramatic happens to shift me.
Cheerds
Benee Wafers
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Thanks again John.
Need some comments from the group on the increase in gauges?
Anything to worry about.?
BW
Need some comments from the group on the increase in gauges?
Anything to worry about.?
BW
I've played D'Addarion phosphor bronze mediums exclusively on my Guilds for probably 25 years. I do a lot of heavy flatpicking bluegrass and I also do a lot of fingerpicking (with a plastic thumbpick and brass fingerpicks).
I wasn't real impressed with elixers either, especially at the price. :shock:
I went exclusively to D'Addario when they quit making "Nashville Straights".
Anyone remember those?
I wasn't real impressed with elixers either, especially at the price. :shock:
I went exclusively to D'Addario when they quit making "Nashville Straights".
Anyone remember those?SmithfieldFair
Member
GF25
Hey, John Kidder - I've paid for it...now waiting No. 3's arrival...stay tuned...Dudley-Brian
Hey, John Kidder - I've paid for it...now waiting No. 3's arrival...stay tuned...Dudley-Brian
john_kidder
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Too cool, Dudley-Brian. Can't wait for the review.
Benee Wafers
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So you all feel there is nothing to worry about moving from the Guild suggested .12 thru ..52 to .13 thru .52, as far as stressing the guitar goes?
BW
BW
HoboKen
Member
I consider myself a very pragmatic guy. I agree that what ever you feel sounds good to you, that's what you desire, and if you can aford it, buy it.
But, like with all good things, one grows in appreciation of tone and balance and sustain, the more one is around quality sounding instruments. Notice I did not say expensive instruments. I was first attracted to Guild because the guitars had an equal or better sound for less money than any other high-end guitar to my ear.
I agree, for the money, the poly-coated finished GAD Guilds are very good. But, I had a chance to compare my Westerly JF-30 head to head with a Gad Guild Jumbo 30. I had to suggest that my friend find a lacquer nitro-celluose finished Westerly Guild JF-30, for the difference was that pronounced and complete to my ear......and the cost difference was not. He wanted it for stage work and recording.....need I say more?
A poly-finished GAD Guild will not improve with age as will a lacquer finished Guild no matter where it is made or what it costs. Most folks won't really appreciate the difference though until they play for a while.
But that day will come as it did for me and others like me who now judge the sound of a guitar blind-folded first.
I really wanted to purchase a new D-55 if it sounded as good as my Westerly DV-72. I played 9 of which some were Tacoma and some were Corona built. None matched the Westerly DV-72. I bought a used EXC + Westerly D-55, for it matched the quality of sound of the DV-72.
Will the newer lacquer finished Guilds age and grow in sound to match my Hobokens and Westerlys? I do hope so. I really do, for they will be the guitars all the GAD Guild players will seek out in a few years. They will keep their GADS, but they will grow to know the difference their ears will tell them is really there. Once that happens, there is no going back. At one time I didn't believe that. I do now, "'Cause I are one!"
Having sons that are in the sound engineering business speeded up the quality of sound in guitars and microphones process for me. There I was quite content with a $45 mic and a $300 (my 1965 cost) guitar. Now it takes a $300 or better mic and at least a used $1500 Guild to give me that quality of sound and build contentment. Darn kids and an educated ear anyway! It's a blessing and a curse all in one.....but what a magnificent obsession!
But, like with all good things, one grows in appreciation of tone and balance and sustain, the more one is around quality sounding instruments. Notice I did not say expensive instruments. I was first attracted to Guild because the guitars had an equal or better sound for less money than any other high-end guitar to my ear.
I agree, for the money, the poly-coated finished GAD Guilds are very good. But, I had a chance to compare my Westerly JF-30 head to head with a Gad Guild Jumbo 30. I had to suggest that my friend find a lacquer nitro-celluose finished Westerly Guild JF-30, for the difference was that pronounced and complete to my ear......and the cost difference was not. He wanted it for stage work and recording.....need I say more?
A poly-finished GAD Guild will not improve with age as will a lacquer finished Guild no matter where it is made or what it costs. Most folks won't really appreciate the difference though until they play for a while.
But that day will come as it did for me and others like me who now judge the sound of a guitar blind-folded first.
I really wanted to purchase a new D-55 if it sounded as good as my Westerly DV-72. I played 9 of which some were Tacoma and some were Corona built. None matched the Westerly DV-72. I bought a used EXC + Westerly D-55, for it matched the quality of sound of the DV-72.
Will the newer lacquer finished Guilds age and grow in sound to match my Hobokens and Westerlys? I do hope so. I really do, for they will be the guitars all the GAD Guild players will seek out in a few years. They will keep their GADS, but they will grow to know the difference their ears will tell them is really there. Once that happens, there is no going back. At one time I didn't believe that. I do now, "'Cause I are one!"
Having sons that are in the sound engineering business speeded up the quality of sound in guitars and microphones process for me. There I was quite content with a $45 mic and a $300 (my 1965 cost) guitar. Now it takes a $300 or better mic and at least a used $1500 Guild to give me that quality of sound and build contentment. Darn kids and an educated ear anyway! It's a blessing and a curse all in one.....but what a magnificent obsession!
john_kidder
Senior Member
Back to Benee's question, I personally have no trouble at all with the heavier strings - I'm running .013 to .056 now, for some time on the D-25 and D-50, and now also on the GF-60, without issues. Except for problems keeping the fretting clean and clear on more difficult (for me) chords and changes - they are just heavier wires, after all, and lighter strings are certainly easier to play.
But: I have a very small sample of guitars to talk about. Hans will have a far better idea from a far broader range of instruments. If he's not wtching this thread, you might want to address a question to him directly.
But: I have a very small sample of guitars to talk about. Hans will have a far better idea from a far broader range of instruments. If he's not wtching this thread, you might want to address a question to him directly.
Benee Wafers
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Thanks John for the input.
Thanks Hobie.
On what do you base this statement? I have edited your statement for clarity.
"A poly-finish will not improve with age as will a lacquer finish"
Benee Wafers
Thanks Hobie.
On what do you base this statement? I have edited your statement for clarity.
"A poly-finish will not improve with age as will a lacquer finish"
Benee Wafers