jte
Member
"I'll take the bait. Start a new topic and tell us about it."
From the thread about converting an SFIV harp tailpiece to a stop-bar, where I said we sold more ES-335s than Starfire IVs, and mentioned it was a whole 'nother thread...
I managed a guitar store from '77 - '88, and was a dealer for both Guild and Gibson (and Martin, Ovation, Takamine, Fender, Washburn, Yamaha, Norman, etc.). The owner of the store and I were both huge fans of Guild guitars and not so much fans of Gibson guitars. And we were especially dismissive of Gibson's arrogant approach to business and their blindness to the needs of dealers.
But the point of the comment was that because Guild has ALWAYS suffered from ineffective marketing, the Gibson name sold more guitars than the sound of the guitars ever would. We had a Gibson Dove and a Guild D-44 and a serious customer who was going back and forth between the two of them. He played them both back and forth for a long time, the owner of the store and I played them for him while he stood back and listened, etc. This went on for about three weeks. He finally said that even though the Guild sounded better and played better, and was lest money too, he was going with the Gibson because he always wanted a Gibson. Now that was a Guild acoustic where they at least had some market presence and some reputation.
Trying to sell a Starfire IV in that environment was just about impossible. Objectively, the Guild had a more stable neck, a better retail price, and much more consistency. In the earlier thread I related that in that 11 year span of comparing EVERY ES-3X5 to every Starfire IV, there was ONE Gibson that was truely an amazing guitar (especially through a an old chocolate Tolex Fender Pro-Reverb (1x15) we had). Most of them were at best mediocre, and a couple were just not that good, especially considering the price. But the Starfires were consistently excellent guitars. And for an American-made guitar with a lifetime warranty (that they actually honored on the few occasions we had to use it), the price was wonderful. But we sold a few used SF-IVs and about two new ones in that period.
The thing is that so many guitarists buy with their eyes not their ears. Selling Guilds is ALWAYS a sale- very very few people walk into a guitar store actually LOOKING for a Guild, and many STILL have the impression (as a local older guitar salesman told people back in the '70s) that they're inferior Gibsons. The guy at Miller's Music in town (the long-time established music store where the sales staff wore ties and the only Les Paul they had in stock at a time was locked in a glass case) told people that Guilds were Gibson seconds- that Gibson sent them to the Guild plant for new headstocks if they didn't meet Gibson standards (sorta failed to explain the vastly different construction, but it was the '70s and people didn't know stuff about guitars). And some folks believed that junk...
So, now after at least three changes of ownership since I left retail in '88, Guild is STILL struggling against that market bias. And people STILL buy with their eyes instead of their ears...
I think it was David Byrne who sang "... same as it ever was..."
John
From the thread about converting an SFIV harp tailpiece to a stop-bar, where I said we sold more ES-335s than Starfire IVs, and mentioned it was a whole 'nother thread...
I managed a guitar store from '77 - '88, and was a dealer for both Guild and Gibson (and Martin, Ovation, Takamine, Fender, Washburn, Yamaha, Norman, etc.). The owner of the store and I were both huge fans of Guild guitars and not so much fans of Gibson guitars. And we were especially dismissive of Gibson's arrogant approach to business and their blindness to the needs of dealers.
But the point of the comment was that because Guild has ALWAYS suffered from ineffective marketing, the Gibson name sold more guitars than the sound of the guitars ever would. We had a Gibson Dove and a Guild D-44 and a serious customer who was going back and forth between the two of them. He played them both back and forth for a long time, the owner of the store and I played them for him while he stood back and listened, etc. This went on for about three weeks. He finally said that even though the Guild sounded better and played better, and was lest money too, he was going with the Gibson because he always wanted a Gibson. Now that was a Guild acoustic where they at least had some market presence and some reputation.
Trying to sell a Starfire IV in that environment was just about impossible. Objectively, the Guild had a more stable neck, a better retail price, and much more consistency. In the earlier thread I related that in that 11 year span of comparing EVERY ES-3X5 to every Starfire IV, there was ONE Gibson that was truely an amazing guitar (especially through a an old chocolate Tolex Fender Pro-Reverb (1x15) we had). Most of them were at best mediocre, and a couple were just not that good, especially considering the price. But the Starfires were consistently excellent guitars. And for an American-made guitar with a lifetime warranty (that they actually honored on the few occasions we had to use it), the price was wonderful. But we sold a few used SF-IVs and about two new ones in that period.
The thing is that so many guitarists buy with their eyes not their ears. Selling Guilds is ALWAYS a sale- very very few people walk into a guitar store actually LOOKING for a Guild, and many STILL have the impression (as a local older guitar salesman told people back in the '70s) that they're inferior Gibsons. The guy at Miller's Music in town (the long-time established music store where the sales staff wore ties and the only Les Paul they had in stock at a time was locked in a glass case) told people that Guilds were Gibson seconds- that Gibson sent them to the Guild plant for new headstocks if they didn't meet Gibson standards (sorta failed to explain the vastly different construction, but it was the '70s and people didn't know stuff about guitars). And some folks believed that junk...
So, now after at least three changes of ownership since I left retail in '88, Guild is STILL struggling against that market bias. And people STILL buy with their eyes instead of their ears...
I think it was David Byrne who sang "... same as it ever was..."
John