In the process of grabbing this f-212, thoughts?

[rbrcbr]

Hey gang,

Currently have my eyes set on this '64 F-212 (https://reverb.com/item/38388087-vintage-1964-guild-f-212-12-string-acoustic-guitar), allegedly with a neck reset and the associated fret level/crown done by Retrofret, so I feel pretty confident in it's condition. The seller says it has a tiny bit of bellying behind the bridge when I asked, but nothing bad. Any thoughts on this? I'm in the process of offering for it as a private sale so I'm not going to be paying reverb prices, just curious what you guys think? Anything in particular you think I need to look out for? He says no cracks either, and that the frets have plenty of life. I'm kind of taking a gamble on it as I'd be buying it via Paypal friends & family so if it's screwed I'm kind of stuck with it.

 

[Westerly Wood]

Norman Blake once said, and I am paraphrasing horribly here, if your old guitar doesn’t have a belly, it doesn’t sound good.

maybe someone can fix my woeful translation with the exact quote.

if it ain’t got belly it’s just not that sexy?

lol

 

[gjmalcyon]

My JF4-12 (17" jumbo) has a moderate belly to it that has remained unchanged in the 8 1/2 years she's been with me. Neck reset or no, I'd ask for photos of the neck angle and saddle height.

 

[Rayk]

I can’t tell you what to do but I’ll tell ya what I think . First you have some doubts that tells me don’t do it through friends and family but that’s me .
For the few extra dollars and piece of mind knowing Reverb will back you up that’s the way I’d go .
Though my F212 is fairly newish I love it . Hopefully this one will be for you with all that mojo .
Best of luck with her .
Oh and the other folks say . Lol

 

[spoox]

The first time I picked up my '65 F212 I was shocked at its lightness--when I strummed the first chord and felt it resonate I knew I had to have it. It had a slight belly, so I told the seller I wanted to think about it. She told me of the luthier who had checked it out before she put it up for sale. I called him and he said it was of no concern, that for a 50 year old 12 string it was fine. It's my favorite non-reso acoustic--I'd played a few Westerly 12 strings before, but I still prefer the Hoboken build to the heavier guitars. If you were able to play the '64 I think you'd be more than pleased.

 

[twocorgis]

Norman Blake once said, and I am paraphrasing horribly here, if your old guitar doesn’t have a belly, it doesn’t sound good.

maybe someone can fix my woeful translation with the exact quote.

I believe the quote is "No belly, no tone", and there's a lot of truth to it. Dana Bourgeois did an excellent column in Acoustic Guitar magazine not long ago on the subject.

 

[Rambozo96]

I believe the quote is "No belly, no tone", and there's a lot of truth to it. Dana Bourgeois did an excellent column in Acoustic Guitar magazine not long ago on the subject.

Can’t argue with that. I think even some new guitars come off the shelf with a slight belly.

 

[twocorgis]

Can’t argue with that. I think even some new guitars come off the shelf with a slight belly.

I've always believed that any acoustic guitar that's built light enough to sound good will develop some belly, and my collection bears that out.

 

[Rambozo96]

I've always believed that any acoustic guitar that's built light enough to sound good will develop some belly, and my collection bears that out.

Maybe that explains why the Gibson acoustics I encountered from the 70’s sounded kinda lousy. I yet to find one worth buying except for an old Gibson Heritage that somehow beat the odds.

 

[Westerly Wood]

Maybe that explains why the Gibson acoustics I encountered from the 70’s sounded kinda lousy. I yet to find one worth buying except for an old Gibson Heritage that somehow beat the odds.

both Gibson and Martin notoriously struggled in the 70s. Meanwhile Guild thrived.

 

[Brad Little]

My '64 had a neck reset at Guild NH a few years ago, has a slight belly, plays great and sounds great. As spoox said above "when I strummed the first chord and felt it resonate, " when I first got mine (new) I would sometimes just strum a chord and put my ear to the back to get the full effect.

 

[rbrcbr]

Thanks for the input everyone. Less worried about the bellying now. The seller just sent me these pics, my buddy mentioned that the area around the sound hole looks warped, like the neck had been buckling in on itself for years before the reset..,is this nitpicking or something I should be concerned with?

 

[rbrcbr]

Ultimately, if it plays well and is stable I think I’d be happy with it, but just trying to be practical and not make an impulse purchase.

 

[twocorgis]

both Gibson and Martin notoriously struggled in the 70s. Meanwhile Guild thrived.

Gibsons and Martins were pretty dodgy in the '70s, especially Gibsons. I owned a '76 Martin d28 that had a misaligned bridge, and I could never get the intonation correct. After I sold it, I swore I'd never buy another Martin, and all I can say is that I'm glad I don't follow my own advice! As overbuilt as Guilds were in the '70s (my D50 is a tank), they were still the best of the lot.

 

[donnylang]

FYI, this same guitar sold for $850 on eBay very recently:

Guild 12 String Acoustic Guitar Model F212 | eBay

Neck fully rebuilt and action adjusted in 2016. 1964 model year. Great playability. Neck rebuild in 2016.

www.ebay.com

I actually considered it at that time, but the "tuned to D" bugged me.

Also- that guitar is a 1965.

 

[rbrcbr]

FYI, this same guitar sold for $850 on eBay very recently:

Guild 12 String Acoustic Guitar Model F212 | eBay

Neck fully rebuilt and action adjusted in 2016. 1964 model year. Great playability. Neck rebuild in 2016.

www.ebay.com

I actually considered it at that time, but the "tuned to D" bugged me.

Also- that guitar is a 1965.

I had looked up the serial this morning too, was thinking it was 65 as well but wasn’t sure.

well damn, thanks for the heads up on that listing. Gonna pass now. I get people have to make money somehow but it’s always rough to learn what someone paid when they are flipping something.

 

[Westerly Wood]

It’s definitely gonna need a neck reset.

 

[twocorgis]

It’s definitely gonna need a neck reset.

I was thinking about it when this guitar was on eBay, but passed because of the lowish saddle, and because I promised myself that I'd never have more than one 12er again. Funny thing about low saddles is that my 2010 saddle went from good to low the first time my luthier set it up after I bought it is 2013, and I was was crestfallen at the time. But it has not moved one iota from then until now, and could stay that way for a very long time. It's OK, because I don't see myself ever selling it.

 

[Br1ck]

Offer to pay the PayPal fees.

 

[wileypickett]

"No belly, no tone" refers to guitars that were built with an arched (or bellied) top, as Bourgeois and other makers design and build them.

A very, very slight amount of bellying may be acceptable, but in the main a guitar that was built with a flat-top and develops a belly is a guitar that is in need of repair.

Especially with Guilds, where the bellying is invariably accompanied by bridge lift. A flat-bottomed bridge will not stay glued to a top that is rounded.

Bellying also leads to the saddle being improperly angled and the intonation being off.