Is there a D35 registry?

[Guildedagain]

Is this one genius, or just another crackpot idea?

Just talking to a local guy who supposedly knew about some vintage guitars a while back, gone now, I waited way too long to follow up on this lead, which was some weird divorce thing anyway, the dust finally settled, and this dude actually got one of the guitars... Old guy by the sound of it, and maybe a few beers, but anyway, I say, so what was it, the guitar you got?

He says, it was a 1968 Guild D35, and wow, what a coincidence, he turns out to be a Guild nut, or at leas since he got this one.

All the instruments went through a local shop, and the owner, very vintage savvy guy, apparently made quite a big deal of the '68 D35, cause it was just released and he claims the first ones released, even the first thousand had to be at the top of their game, because it would make or break the model.

I'll buy that, sounds plausible.

Anyway, we talked for an hour (wife still mad...), I'll have to go meet up with him and compare Guilds of yore sometimes, when the blizzards are over...

After we got off the phone, I verified the 1968 thing, was the first year, and I read so many crazy good testimonials and videos about these old D35's on the net that I got to thinking there should be a registry for early D35, heck later ones too, but especially the early ones.

Or is it nuts to put serial numbers on the net because it would invite scams?

Do it stealthy like then, I think mine is a '73, the serial # is; 850XX


This will be embarrassing if there is already such a registry, otherwise, let's start one


D35 owners unite!

 

[Bonneville88]

Mine, OJ839 - think that makes it a '68.

Need to re-shoot it - since these early photos were taken, had the neck reset,
several braces re-glued, refretted, bridge re-glued, center seam separation fixed, small crack fixed, new bone saddle,
headstock overlay reglued, new end pin, and period-correct tuners have replaced the fugly Grovers.
http://photos.app.goo.gl/9kgskPxjB7oMhVoAA

Overall, perhaps the most enjoyable guitar I own in terms of tone, volume dynamics, ease of play throughout the neck, feel,
and very un-Guild-like light weight. I was so happy with it when I got it back as it was so easy to play, I went and listened to
Verlon Thompson performing The Guitar https://youtu.be/T_Lkg7GsKQQ and got myself a little twilight-zoned
out! Had to check to be sure my name wasn't somewhere on the case

It was a great sounding and nice playing guitar even before I had the work done.
Another D35 I scored - in the opposite condition, and built just a year or two later, serial OJ2253,
was good but just didn't have quite the same magic to my ears as this beater, and after comparing it
with this one over the course of a couple of months, I sold it.
Photos of that guitar https://photos.app.goo.gl/oz7JFk6rjKQtxp8q9

 

[Grassdog]

Never owned a D-35 but I'm really interested in hearing stories about them. I have a feeling those old ones from the late 60's with the shorter pickguards are to die for. They all look like they've got tons of mojo.

 

[adorshki]

He says, it was a 1968 Guild D35, and wow, what a coincidence, he turns out to be a Guild nut, or at leas since he got this one.
All the instruments went through a local shop, and the owner, very vintage savvy guy, apparently made quite a big deal of the '68 D35, cause it was just released and he claims the first ones released, even the first thousand had to be at the top of their game, because it would make or break the model.
I'll buy that, sounds plausible.

Gotta admit there're at least 4 D35 owners I can think of right off the bat here that love 'em, (and I'd forgotten abut Bonneville) but I sense a little bit of myth-making in the "had to be at the top of their game" story.
Yeah, 68 was first year, but it was also second year for Westerly production.. so wondering if perhaps as happens so often, there's a germ of truth in the story, but it wasn't about the model as much as the quality to be expected out of Westerly?
And truth to tell, Guild was really a "little guy" back then, not sure if there was even a fan base like ours to be questioning whether the new location was going to be up to snuff.
And I say that with love and humor.
Also, the statement kind of implies that they were taking special pains with these first thousand, as if they were gonna slack off later or weren't taking the same pride of workmanship in all the other production?
THAT's the issue that really makes me skeptical.
As it happens they did make about exactly 1000 in '68 according to the s/n chart, but I have a suspicion that was in response to demand as opposed to planning to build 1000 examples to a high standard, because according to the charts, only about 230 D25's were built from '68-'69 and 1500 D35's were made.
I don't think that would have been the ratio if they'd been "planning" the production volume.
And I'll bet the 500 units made in '69 were every bit as good as the first 1000.
:friendly_wink:
That's what really got me kind of suspicious of the veracity of the story, but I'm just thinking out loud here. ( EDIT: See my update on this opinion in post #10)
D25 and D35 were both introduced in '68, the D25 as the new entry-level dreadnought, and the D35 as an economy alternative to the D40 by all appearances.
A D35 is basically a blinged down D40 (no chesterfield, and probably "standard" as opposed to selected or AA sitka top, and that in itself might go a long way towards explaining why they sounded so good: they'd already had 5 years to learn how to make great dreadnoughts in the D40 and D50.
They probably don't need a myth.
Or maybe it was created to help explain why such a relatively obscure model from the distant number 3 maker in the country could sound so good,
I could also see a somewhat disingenuous factory rep having concocted the story to help stimulate dealer sales back in the day, and that it's become accepted over time by those who've heard it.
But I wouldn't put faith in it unless one of our old hands from Guild like Drumbob or even Hans confirmed it.

After we got off the phone, I verified the 1968 thing, was the first year, and I read so many crazy good testimonials and videos about these old D35's on the net that I got to thinking there should be a registry for early D35, heck later ones too, but especially the early ones.

Member Br1ck would be quick to point out his '71 was also so good he "overspent" restoring it to original condition because he prized the tone that much.
And he's heard a lot more guitars than I have.

Or is it nuts to put serial numbers on the net because it would invite scams?
Do it stealthy like then, I think mine is a '73, the serial # is; 850XX

Don't think that's a big issue, we see 'em and post 'em all the time.

This will be embarrassing if there is already such a registry, otherwise, let's start one
D35 owners unite!

thread maintenance responsibility is all yours.
:glee:

 

[Bonneville88]

Comparison photo of sound hole areas on both D35s...

 

[Guildedagain]

Wow, awesome stuff.

I'd have to agree, Guild was never going to slack off on the quality of the guitars after 500, or 1000.

Couple years ago, when I started toying with the idea of replacing my '72 D28 with a Guild, I watched one of those old short pickguard D35 go for under $400 in the typically wretched eBay that does the guitar no service at all... I wasn't sure if I should jump in or not, and I still regret it to this day.

A little later, I saw a sunburst F-20 with case sell for around the same price, still kicking myself over that one also.


Now, hardly any random "woodwork" guitars at all, all seemingly in the hands of pro resellers and super high asking prices. That was until my next one popped up. That one has some provenance to boot. All it has to do is make it here safe and all will be revealed.

I'll have to call the old guy back to see what number his was and add it, I think it was pretty low.

The Sunburst D35 is a real beauty, fingerboard is unusually light?


D35 Registry

Bonneville88

OJ839 1968 OJ101 to 1003
OJ2253 1969? 1969 OJ1004 to 1592 So this guitar falls outside that range but by 1970 the OJ designation is gone?

Guildedagain

85024 early 1973 Range 75603-95496

http://support.guildguitars.com/downloads/datingyourguild.pdf

 

[fronobulax]

Also, the statement kind of implies that they were taking special pains with these first thousand, as if they were gonna slack off later or weren't taking the same pride of workmanship in all the other production?
THAT's the issue that really makes me skeptical.

There is a belief, perhaps documented, that the first Newark Street production instruments received extra scrutiny. That is usually coupled with the belief, supported anecdotally, that subsequent instruments were more likely to suffer from fit and finish flaws. When a process is outsourced it is common for the initial results to receive extra scrutiny. So while not comparable this is a situation where something slacked off and earlier was better. It is quite possible that the factory never changed anything but quality control/assurance switched from inspecting every instrument that left the factory, at the factory, to inspecting a random sample at the factory one a month.

At New Hartford I had some conversations and when ever they did anything new the results received extra scrutiny until someone in authority believed that the "new" thing was making things better, not worse. To the extent that the processes were repeatable that suggests that once they got things right things kept improving but if the processes were not repeatable then quality might slack a little.

All this is to say I am not necessarily skeptical about a belief that early production at a factory was sometimes better than late production if processes are not repeatable.

 

[SFIV1967]

by 1970 the OJ designation is gone?

No it continued until it was switched to only numbers at some point during 1970. It's written in Hans book. Only the serial number table in Hans book is correct, the tables on the Guild site have some errors and were never updated.
Ralf

 

[fronobulax]

D35 Registry

Bonneville88

OJ839 1968 OJ101 to 1003
OJ2253 1969? 1969 OJ1004 to 1592 So this guitar falls outside that range but by 1970 the OJ designation is gone?

Guildedagain

85024 early 1973 Range 75603-95496

http://support.guildguitars.com/downloads/datingyourguild.pdf

Guild serial numbers are an area of study all by themselves. Guild changed the numbering scheme, sometimes using model specific prefixes and sometimes just using a number that was little more than a production count. Other than as an approximate date, the numbers really don't mean anything else. The times of transition are also not precise. We have seen a '64, numeric serial number, on basses that were introduced in 1965 and should have had a prefix, and numerous cases where the features of an instrument do not match the specs implied by the serial number "date".

 

[adorshki]

As it happens they did make about exactly 1000 in '68 according to the s/n chart, but I have a suspicion that was in response to demand as opposed to planning to build 1000 examples to a high standard, because according to the charts, only about 230 D25's were built from '68-'69 and 1500 D35's were made.
I don't think that would have been the ratio if they'd been "planning" the production volume.
And I'll bet the 500 units made in '69 were every bit as good as the first 1000.
:friendly_wink:
That's what really got me kind of suspicious of the veracity of the story, but I'm just thinking out loud here.

Quoting myself here because even though myth-busting's one of my favorite hobbies, the real point is to try to get at whatever truth might still be deduced these 50 years down the road.
SO....did a little refreshing reading last night and Hans mentions in his book that in fact QC had been "somewhat of a problem in the late '60's", and that it improved under Jim Deurloo who was hired in '69.
The other unknown here for me, given my observations about Westerly, is that Hoboken was still in full operation in '68, and I don't know if all the D35/D25 production was done there, or in Westerly, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't done in both places at once.
Hans has the first guitars out of Westerly being M20's in Aug '67 and says for "some time" they only made M20's and classicals, but don't recall ever seeing anything about where the D35's were first built. All labels from the period said Hoboken even if they were built in Westerly.
I do suspect they were built in Westerly because that's precisely why it had been acquired: to accommodate a big ramp up in production, and 1000 D35's in a year was pretty big for 'em then, and exactly the market they were looking to capture with Westerly capacity (per Hans' book)..it occurs to me as well that since these were also "entry-level" models they would have been the logical next production model to be undertaken there.
But again, just speculating until somebody says Hans (or Hans himself confirms) has confirmed their '68 D35 was built in Hoboken.
Anyway, given Hans' note about QC probs in late '60's I'm willing to give the story about a "make-it-or-break-it QC push for the D35" much more credibility now.
:tranquillity:

 

[Bonneville88]

FWIW, Hans has confirmed my '68 Hobo-labeled burst D35 was made in Westerly - I consider
it a Hobo-era instrument more by the light build than the label...

 

[Curlington]

I joined the club in 2010, scored it off of craigslist on a cold day in parking lot just off I-95. 1970, Serial # 4699* Guy said he had just inherited it.

This thread inspired me to play it. Haven't in months. Strings are at least a year old. I am reminded how amazing it is. Never had a neck reset, but still has a good neck angle, plays easy, good break angle. Even with those old strings, it rings and chimes out! The neck is deceptive. It is big but plays small, if that makes sense. Those craftsmen knew what they were doing.

Just a few nicks and dings as you would expect, black binding, frets sound, tuners good and stays in tune. Best of all, that early Guild mojo: Short pickguard, Guarantee shield label. White line shield truss rod cover.

I tried to give it a better home a few years ago here. Lots of interest but no one followed through.

 

[Bonneville88]

Pics please!:laughing:

 

[adorshki]

FWIW, Hans has confirmed my '68 Hobo-labeled burst D35 was made in Westerly - I consider
it a Hobo-era instrument more by the light build than the label...

Cool, hope I remember it!
"FWIW" early Westerlys were said to be light builds just like Hoboken.
When I was reviewing last night, I saw that Deurloo, hired in '69 and responsible for QC improvement in early '70's, went back to Gibson in '74.
Which seems to be about the time Westerly was said to start graduating towards heavier builds.
Coincidence?

 

[Guildedagain]

A story on each guitar is way cool also. I'll have to see where mine came from, but the guy didn't seem to have any particular feelings for it, probably a pawn shop find that got picked up to turn on the net. He's got nothing on now but I see he's sold other expensive guitars. Hopefully he'll write back with a little bit of info.

D35 Registry

Bonneville88

D35 Serial # OJ839 1968 OJ101 to 1003
D35 Serial # OJ2253 Early 1970? See Hans' book for proper serial number charts.

Br1ck

D35 Serial # OJ 1644 1970 Westerly with Hoboken label.

Curlington

D35 Serial # 4699* 1970 46696 50978

Guildedagain

D35 Serial # 8502* 1973 (early) 75603-95496




Looks like I need to get the book, what's the best way?

 

[walrus]

First you need to find one!

Here's the cheapest one on amazon - $564.00!

https://smile.amazon.com/Guitar-195...oust&qid=1551472208&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmrnull

And one on eBay for $115!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GUILD-GUIT...6:g:VHQAAOSwL35ceXDM:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true


Anyway, watch for one at a reasonable price, and then snag it if you can! They do turn up every once and a while.

walrus

 

[adorshki]

Looks like I need to get the book, what's the best way?

Only been printed twice and only see 'em on eBay or Amazon used for actual printed editions, we see humorous posts occasionally of it being offered for "ridiculous" price.
Believe there's Kindle version and another "digital" version available (ah, I see it now on Apple Books), but give up a bit of quality of pics, I think.
I got mine about a year after I got my D25 I think it was, just because I'd become a "fanboy" from owning the D25 and stumbled across it in a bookstore.
I've been guilty of not really having paid much attention to the history section in there, but last night I realized that there was a lot of stuff there that would confirm or refute questions or theories that have been posed here before.
The Epiphone connection's spelled out clearly for example, and insight stories from people who were there.

Because Hans actually owns the copyright I try not to abuse quoting from it, also not sure if he actually gets income from sales of digital versions and don't want to "give it away" on his behalf.
He seems to be understanding about quoting from it here where the purpose is to contribute to forum knowledge, and has even corrected me at times when I've mis-quoted it from memory.
(I keep it at home but don't post from there.)
Anyway, short answer, right now probably best to get a digital version, or else keep checking for a print version at a reasonable price:
https://www.amazon.com/Guild-Guitar-Book-Hans-Moust-ebook/dp/B002AKJS6K
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-guild-guitar-book/id628448653?mt=11

 

[Guildedagain]

Hhaha, Amazon...

Abebooks has maybe 10, around the $200 price, you can get a brand new one, but none below $114...

I have to have a real one, I have to have guitar porn on paper.

 

[Bonneville88]

Nice '68 on Reverb, serial # OJ 119.
Wondering if the pick guard is original, or perhaps from a D40?

https://reverb.com/item/5637099-vin...ar-straight-neck-low-action-big-resonant-tone

 

[Grassdog]

Angle could be deceiving but action looks kind of high at the 12th fret

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