K&K Pure Mini sounds waaay different in my '70 D-25 compared to the '74 D-25, any ideas?

[E-Type]

I have a '74 arched-back, spruce top, D-25 with a D-25. With the K&K pure mini, it sounds great plugged into my Fender Acoustic 100 amp. I just picked up a '70 all mahogany flat-back D-25 and had a K&K pure mini put in it too. In comparison, it sounds boomy, even with the bass and middle dialed all the way back. I will say that unplugged, the '74 has a much more focused sound than the '70. Unplugged, the '70 is not boomy, but certainly more brash and unrefined sounding.

Anyone have a similar experience? Any suggestions for taming the beast? Any alternative pickups that might work better? Would a separate preamp help?

 

[adorshki]

I have a '74 arched-back, spruce top, D-25 with a D-25. With the K&K pure mini, it sounds great plugged into my Fender Acoustic 100 amp. I just picked up a '70 all mahogany flat-back D-25 and had a K&K pure mini put in it too. In comparison, it sounds boomy, even with the bass and middle dialed all the way back. I will say that unplugged, the '74 has a much more focused sound than the '70. Unplugged, the '70 is not boomy, but certainly more brash and unrefined sounding.

Anyone have a similar experience? Any suggestions for taming the beast? Any alternative pickups that might work better? Would a separate preamp help?

Gotta admit I haven't had that experience but I'd bet it's simply because the K&K's optimized for the frequency response of spruce, and the 'hog top's too "rich" for it?

I'm thinking you may want to look at UST-types to eliminate as much of the hog as possible from the equation. Something else occurs to m as well:

Is it possible just altering the placement of the transducers could help? Maybe they're just placed in a particularly active area of the top, or the spacing between 'em happens to correspond to a resonant frequency?

 

[D30Man]

Based on the description of the tones I do believe it is a difference on the tops. With the hog top I would put an EQ in line. In my experience with hog tops an EQ can take them from really kind of muddy to super warm and more focused. K&K makes EQ's as well that do really nicely. About $110.

 

[Nuuska]

Hello

Is there any difference in overall volume?

If you set the amp controls so your old guitar sounds good - then swap guitar without touching controls - is the sound of the hog-guitar louder w boom or quieter w boom or about the same w boom ?

Are the pups glued in w glue or double-sided tape? Both guitars again.
Plus like @adorshki suggested - is the placement of pups the same?

 

[E-Type]

Hello

Is there any difference in overall volume?

If you set the amp controls so your old guitar sounds good - then swap guitar without touching controls - is the sound of the hog-guitar louder w boom or quieter w boom or about the same w boom ?

Are the pups glued in w glue or double-sided tape? Both guitars again.
Plus like @adorshki suggested - is the placement of pups the same?

The same guy installed the pickup in both and he used CA glue (I think some comes with the pickup). I don't have a mirror to check that he placed them the same in each. He did think the '70 bridge plate was a bit thinner, and the bridge is thinner on that one too.

Volume is the same when the amp is set the same. The '70 sound is just "muddier" or "boomier." Both guitars are equally loud unplugged, but even then the '74 is more focused sounding and the '70 is brasher and you can feel it resonate more when you play it. The '74 is a full pound heavier and I am sure that extra weight does something.

 

[E-Type]

Based on the description of the tones I do believe it is a difference on the tops. With the hog top I would put an EQ in line. In my experience with hog tops an EQ can take them from really kind of muddy to super warm and more focused. K&K makes EQ's as well that do really nicely. About $110.

I have to try this out. The issue persists even when I dial the bass and mid all the way out on the Fender amp, so I am not terribly optimistic.

 

[E-Type]

I just tried some experimentation. Amp set the same, the ‘70 is not only boomier, but louder too. I also have the K&K in my Martin 000-15m. The tone of that one is right in between the ‘74 and the ‘70.

Then I tried running the signal through my board so I could use the eq pedal. Even with everything off, but with an additional 15’ of cable, the boominess was noticeably tamed.

I hadn’t thought a preamp would make a difference as the ‘74 sounds great directly through the amp, but there may be something to this impedance thing. Does it make any sense that a preamp would matter differently across guitars?

Again, the ‘74 is a tank and the ‘70 is pretty light and resonant.

 

[E-Type]

I finally realized that when playing the other night, I was using an X-vive wireless. The boominess is much higher using it than with a cable. IDK why the '74 is ok with the transmitter, but the cable helps a lot. Maybe there is some sort of impedance thing going on.

 

[Nuuska]

Hello

An input w "too low" impedance will indeed cut your low end. In your first post you wrote that you had turned BOTH bass and mid way down on your amp. What about turning just the bass down - and adjust volume acordingly ?

 

[Nuuska]

I finally realized that when playing the other night, I was using an X-vive wireless. The boominess is much higher using it than with a cable. IDK why the '74 is ok with the transmitter, but the cable helps a lot. Maybe there is some sort of impedance thing going on.

Could well be that the input impedance of X-vive is a decade higher than on Fender.

 

[Bill Ashton]

I am a singular person here that did not have great success with the K & K system and my 2007 D55 (Tacoma-built)...I even sprung for that
EQ and it really was not that much different. Tried through multiple amps and dedicated acoustic guitar amps; the guitar was quite wonderful by itself. Bass heavy, but good, really rumbled your chest when playing her. I wished at the time I had just bought a new Shure SM57 mic and was done with it, but as it turns out I never pursued playing out so it was a non-issue...

 

[Br1ck]

I had this problem on my Martin D 35 custom. Never having K&Ks before I took my guitar into a very reputable shop to see what was wrong. They plugged into a Fishman mini, and BEFORE they played a note, turned the bass control all the way down. Then they futzed with both the mids and highs. Yep, it was working fine. Next day I had them taken out and Dazzos put in. You probably need a pre with a high pass filter, bass, sweepable mids, and treble tone controls to get a K&K to do what you want it to.

 

[E-Type]

Hello

An input w "too low" impedance will indeed cut your low end. In your first post you wrote that you had turned BOTH bass and mid way down on your amp. What about turning just the bass down - and adjust volume acordingly ?

I tried various combinations of bass and middle. It didn’t seem to matter much. But again, switching to a 15’ long cable made a big diff.

 

[E-Type]

I had this problem on my Martin D 35 custom. Never having K&Ks before I took my guitar into a very reputable shop to see what was wrong. They plugged into a Fishman mini, and BEFORE they played a note, turned the bass control all the way down. Then they futzed with both the mids and highs. Yep, it was working fine. Next day I had them taken out and Dazzos put in. You probably need a pre with a high pass filter, bass, sweepable mids, and treble tone controls to get a K&K to do what you want it to.

Suggestions? I don’t think the K&K pre does all of that.

 

[F-412Spec]

If the fastening tape is deteriorated, mushy, or thick, you'll get bad sound. Cleaner sound with very thin tape like Shurtape or Rhino carpet tape. Best coupling is often epoxy, but then it's permanent.

 

[Bill Ashton]

^^^ Wonder if THAT was my problem, way back when...???

 

[E-Type]

If the fastening tape is deteriorated, mushy, or thick, you'll get bad sound. Cleaner sound with very thin tape like Shurtape or Rhino carpet tape. Best coupling is often epoxy, but then it's permanent.

It was just installed a couple of weeks ago and with CA glue.

 

[mavuser]

you definitely need a preamp for a passive K+K, or any passive pickup. I would get the LR Baggs Para DI preamp. it can be dialed to work with any type of acoustic pickup. Technically it could be used together with the K+K preamp suggested above, if u want volume and tone controls on your belt or whatever. but the LR Baggs Para will really get you where you need to be.

and of course the 1970 D-25 and 1974 D-25 have basically absolutley nothing in common, as you know. Mahogany is a hardwood and Spruce is a soft wood, so they will resonate and sound a lot different, especially considering those pickups are glued directly to the underside of the tops.

 

[Cougar]

you definitely need a preamp for a passive K+K, or any passive pickup.....

Yeah. The K&K I had put in my F512 sounded pretty bad straight into my amp. Trebly even with the treble turned way down. Could not "tame" it. So I picked up a cheap-o Behringer ADI21 V-Tone Acoustic Driver DI Pedal for $39. That really did the trick. Sounds quite decent now!

 

[Rayk]

Different guitar’s different tone and build . Besides the top difference each obviously has its tonal signature . If placement of the K&k annoyed’s ( lol sorry) is the same on both guitars then simply it’s the way it was built to sound be it by design or magic of wood doing it’s thing saying “ the one before this guitar sounded better so did the the one after , this one not so much . lol I been there so I can joke . Lol . I would think the boominess is there originally or the pickups are installed wrong .

The thing is with these k&K’s there’s not many options or one’s willingness to try to find the sweet spot where they will perform best if that would even matter . I personally don’t know but they seem to have a standard set up not one that adjusts for optical sound that I’m aware of .

I have a saying if you want to know what your guitar really sounds like record it with mics ! The mics won’t lie ! Unless you mix the poo out it to sound like something other than what it is !

Worse comes to worse Eq it or find a better pickup option .