miking guitar with a SM-57

kdavid

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not quite sure where to put this, butt since it pertains to my beloved DV6, i'll ask here:
last week i ran my Guild thru the house PA at an open mike i play regularly & wasnt happy at all with the sound (its a martin gold us pickup)
since they only have one mike (ok, not a very good one either--sorry) i was wondering if it might be eaier
to just carry my mike & stand & plug in like that instead of finding space for my amp & stuff.
is an SM57 even a decent guitar mike?
i guess its an either/or situation...what would you all do?
 

Taylor Martin Guild

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Using an SM-57 through a PA works great.
You may have to roll off a bit of bass.
One potential problem is keeping the guitar in front of the mike.

Try to get in some practice to see where to place the mike.
 

capnjuan

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Taylor Martin Guild said:
... One potential problem is keeping the guitar in front of the mike.
+1 ... make that right in front ... as in a couple of inches ... no Pete leaps.
 

kdavid

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thanks for the replys--ive been practicing with my mic plugged into my crate amp for where to place it.
also since i usually sit, keeping it fairley close shouldent be too difficult (& at my age, pete-style leaps
are out of the question :lol: )
i was just curious how well an sm57 would do as a guitar mic.

thanks again all.
 

yettoblaster

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kdavid said:
...i was just curious how well an sm57 would do as a guitar mic.

thanks again all.


The Shure SM-57 has been an industry standard instrument mic for decades.

They are rugged, have a cardioid pickup pattern that helps fight feedback, and sound pretty natural on an acoustic guitar (or snare drum, trumpet, piano, guitar amp, or even vocals if you add a foam "pop" filter).

Lots of people will tell you that there are better, more modern mic's for acoustic guitars but it's hard to argue with the success of SM-58's for vocals, and SM-57's for guitar, over the decades.

The only thing I like better than a SM-57 is a Shure Beta-57A (a bit newer, but the same response and an even narrower "supercardioid" pattern, with some extra highs and a bit more output), but they cost more, or an Electro-voice RE-20 (a big dynamic -too big for most stage work).

Of course there are also plenty of condensor mic's out there too, but the SM-57 remains the industry standard because it's reliable (rugged even), cheap (enough), and sounds good.
 

yettoblaster

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kdavid said:
i was looking at a preamp when finances permit--more like this one. would it be okay for what im doing?
http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/ ... sku=307107
its been many years since i gigged with anything more than my guitar, amp, & eq.

Gee I don't know anything about that particular unit, but they're talking about pickups and "mini-mic's," and most setups for a full size low-impedence mic like a SM-57 would need a three-prong mic type (NAB standard) "XLR" connector, which is pretty big to be installing anywhere on a belt-clip pre-amp.

I guess if you adapt to a 1/4" there might be a way to plug in a SM-57. Otherwise I think those belt-mounted "clip-on" preamps would be happier with one of those tiny "lapel mic" type deals. But like I said I don't really know much about those units. L.R.Baggs makes great sounding stuff though.

Is this for the SM-57 or have we moved on to other alternatives here?

Edit:
OK I went to the L.R.Baggs website and that unit looks like it has a standard 1/4" input on the bottom, so it looks as though you could put an adapter onto a XLR equipped mic cable, or buy an XLR X 1/4" converter type cable for use with a SM-57 microphone.

Before doing that however I would recommend talking to L.R.Baggs about that idea, as there could be impedence problems.

They probably have a tech you could talk to during business hours. You could ask.
 

kdavid

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oops sorry--thihnk i crowded too many thoughts into the thread--the pre amp would be for the pickup in my guitar, but i would use the mike until i could get the preamp?
sometimes my ADHD gets the better of me :oops:
 

gilded

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For Starters:

Okay, is this a Gold Plus pickup? Or is it something older? Does it take a battery? If so, it already has a preamp, yes?

Did you have it installed in the guitar, or did it come with the guitar?


What didn't you like about your sound at the Open Mike? Did you like your vocal sound? Did you like everybody else's sound but yours?


What are other people doing? Does anybody bring an amp and if they do, does it run separately ('outside') the PA mix?


What is the PA like at the Open Mike? For example, is there a mixing board or is there just a Box Head and a couple of speakers?

Are there monitor speakers that help you hear your guitar on stage? Who is running the PA? Do you think you can talk to that person about your sound?


How are they plugging you into the PA? Are they plugging you straight into a Direct Box on the floor or are they just running a guitar cable out of your Guild into the PA Brain/Mixer?

Where is the Open Mike Jam? At a music store? Coffee House? Church? Would they let you experiment with your settings beforehand or on an off-night, so you don't have to make big bad noises the very first time you try to plug in an extra microphone/ guitar amp/ preamp/ what have you?


Microphones:

I like SM 57s just fine. I have about 10 of them.

Preamps:

I have and use a Baggs Paracoustic DI box. The Baggs DI takes a guitar pickups signal, runs it through some EQ points, where you can boost or lower frequencies. It also has a phase control which, strangely enough, is a mighty useful item when you are trying to control feedback. For Output, you can plug straight into the XLR Out to go to a preamp input the PA's mixer, use a guitar cable output to run into an acoustic-electric amp, or both! It's not a belt unit, but belt units get knocked out of kilter by a passing sleeve or hand more often than you think and they are a major pain, unless you use one all the time (I guarantee you will step on a cable and pull it out of your belt preamp, the first three times you use it; a Grand Noise!). If you are going to be sitting down anyway, grab a second chair or stool for your Para DI and plant it next you, then put the Para DI on it.

Why don't you chew on all this stuff and get back to me if you want to?

gilded
 

Christopher Cozad

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kdavid said:
i ... wasnt happy at all with the sound (its a martin gold us pickup)
... is an SM57 even a decent guitar mike?

For what it is worth, here is an additional 'two cents':

When performing live with an acoustic guitar, amplification is some combination of convenience, volume, and an attempt at accurate reproduction of the sound of the instrument. I think most would agree that if you are contrasting the guitar pickup with the dynamic microphone, the Shure SM57 (properly positioned and EQ'd) will provide your audience with the more accurate representation of what your guitar sounds like. If you think about how acoustic guitars produce sound, placing a microphone (or two) in front of a guitar will nearly always reproduce it's sound more accurately than transducers, magnetic poles, and internal mic's.

However...

Guitar pickups are rarely used because someone thinks they actually sound better than a microphone. There are a few exceptions, but contrast the recording studio with the stage. In the studio, there is a reason why mic's are the standard for capturing the essence of your instrument for the world to hear. The studio is a very controlled environment where dealing with feedback is just not an issue. On the stage, pickups are popular because they conveniently and consistently, from venue to venue, allow for greater amplification before feedback, something that is VERY difficult to achieve and control with a mic alone (but not impossible).

If you want to use mic all by itself, I believe you need to add some aggressive EQ in your signal path to provide you with control of the variables you will encounter. Over the years I have used a preamp with a notch filter, a 5-band parametric EQ, or a 31-band graphic EQ, all with relative success. Keep the mic close to the instrument. Where you position it, in front of the soundhole, the 12th fret, or the over the soundboard, will affect the tone as well as the susceptibility to feedback. Sound pressure levels can change radically in a small room, as people come and go, so it is nice to have fingertip control to protect the audience from that dreaded squeal. In a really large setting this is usually less of an issue. You may also want to add a foam pop filter to the mic, as raking the mic up against the strings produces a dreadful sound.

As other have suggested, if you run your pickup through a preamp it will definitely soften the 'quack-i-ness' of the Fishman piezo and add a warmer tone. That may be all you need. D-TAR Mama Bear, L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic DI, L.R. Baggs Venue DI, Radial ToneBone, and Fishman Aura Spectrum are all well-respected examples.

If you are still hungry for a better tone, you may want to consider adding the SM57 to your setup, as in, using it in conjunction with your preamp'd pickup. In this configuration, the pickup provides the volume and the mic adds the more 'natural' sound to the mix. Feedback is kept at bay by not relying totally on the mic for volume.

Then again, you may want to look into retro-fitting your guitar with an altogether different pickup system, and forego the mic altogether. A 'dual source' solution, where an internal mic is mixed with an under-saddle pickup, or a soundhole magnetic pickup is mixed with a transducer, can sometimes be just the ticket.

Then there is the new Anthem pickup by L.R. Baggs. In my opinion, it is quite an impressive solution and may bring us closer in our seemingly never-ending quest for that perfect combination of convenience, volume, and tone. Some are using the term 'holy grail' in their reviews, but I will leave that conclusion to the audience.

Finally, if you are providing your own P.A., you have complete control (relatively speaking) over your sound so you can make any decisions you like and change your setup at will. If you have to 'plug in' to a house system you can either leave the results entirely to the soundman (or lack thereof), or maintain control over your tone with a footpedal or small rack of goodies.

OK, maybe that was four cents worth, but I hope some of it proves to be helpful. I wish you great success on your quest.

Christopher
 

yettoblaster

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kdavid said:
oops sorry--thihnk i crowded too many thoughts into the thread--the pre amp would be for the pickup in my guitar, but i would use the mike until i could get the preamp?
sometimes my ADHD gets the better of me :oops:


Ah.

Then yes, some kind of interface for an onboard piezo bridge pickup is recommended. I don't particularly like the stand alone sound of most piezo's, but they usually can go much louder before feedback than a mic, in my experience.

Blended with other sources (like a mic either internal or external, or a soundhole mounted magnetic pickup), a piezo and a pre-amp can sound much better than a piezo alone and offer more usable volume before problems arise with feedback.
 

gilded

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ccozad said:
For what it is worth, here is an additional 'two cents':


OK, maybe that was four cents worth, but I hope some of it proves to be helpful. I wish you great success on your quest.

Christopher

Christopher, I liked your post a lot. I thought you explained the dichotomy of electrick-ing acoustics really well.

By the by, fellows, I just bought a Baggs Venue on eBay. I'll write a report on it when I get it.

gilded
 

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From what I've read, Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlings use Shure Sm57s and Sm58s exclusively when performing live and carry eight of them. When they go into a hall on tour, they "tune" their sound by using mikes they feel broadcast them to best advantage given the environment and the PA system:

http://www.acguitar.com/issues/ag76/gear76.html

Lots of artists have used them as vocal mikes as well, either because that was all they had or because they prefer its particular dynamics:
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=63661

My Guild D-25 has no pickups of any kind. When I play gigs with it, I mike it with a Sm57 pointed at the 12th fret. Sometimes I do get carried away and bump into it.

I sing into an SM58 usually, though i think it tends to be a bit bassy for my tastes. Almost everyone has one, though.

Our banjo player uses a banjo pickup combined with an SM57 and the sound guy modulates the two for a rounder sound.
 

plaidseason

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For the most part i play plugged into a fairly elaborate/stupid setup, but when I don't plug in I stick with an SM57. As others have mentioned, Gillian Welch and David Rawlings use them for micing their instruments. As well, Daniel Lanois often uses an SM57 in the studio for micing acoustic guitars.

I don't disagree that there are "higher end" options out there, but for simplicity's sake, the SM57 is an excellent mic for live acoustic sound. My one simple trick when micing an acoustic is to have the sound man add at least a little reverb at the board which simulate the ambience and overtones of an actual acoustic guitar sound.

As for the SM58 for vocals, I like them, but I find that the Beta 58A is a huge upgrade in terms of clarity and dynamics.

-Chris
 

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I'll echo the others and say aim at the 12 fret, about 4 to 6 inches away. might want to spend a little more time getting the Martin pickup dialed in at the P.A. a microphone will add some good "string resonance and air" to your sound.
 

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I'm going to offer up a bit of a contrarian opinion re: using a Shure SM57, or any other mic in a open mic setting

One of my pet peeves at open mics is the performer who comes on stage and proceeds to spend way to much time fiddling with the guitar, the mic stand, the P.A., E.Q., tuning, warming up etc.. As a matter of respect for the other performers and the audience I think you should be tuned up, warmed up and ready to go. Plug her in and play. So to drag up a mic, a stand and then proceed to the get all that set up, positioned, etc.. seems wrong to me. A regular gig fine, use the mic if that's what you like, but not in a open mic situation.

If the sound of your internal pick up is not to your liking, a outboard E.Q. is a pretty simple way to tweak the sound and is more user friendly in a open mic setting.
 
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