My Guild Starfire - thoughts on selling, or keeping....

[Oldbassguy]

I have a Guild Starfire - BA 1227 that I bought used in 72 or 73.... I have kept it in pretty good condition. There were a few dings when I bought it, and have added a few myself - mostly due to youth. I take better care of it now.

I am sort of thinking of selling it to get a boutique type bass - Sadowsky, or Alembic that I generally could not afford, but thought I might be able to depending on what these go for. But, I am obviously torn - a lot of sentimental value, it is gorgeous, and has a sound that can't be matched. I don't play it much mostly due to neck dive that drives me bananas, and I got an EBMM Sterling that just fits my body really nicely.

Anyways, over at Talkbass, one of the people suggested this forum, and so here I am. I guess I am going to expect everyone to tell me to keep it, and I am leaning that way, but would be interested in people's thoughts about the bass, its worth, or anything else of interest.

Whole thing is original stock except the nut (which I kept, but it was too worn down to use for playing. Wooden Saddles are original. I am not sure if it was made in 1967 or in the early 70s. There was a Vintage Magazine article that mentioned the neck pickup was brought in the 70's, but the serial number puts it in 1967 - 68. I have the OHSC as well.

Anyways, i will look forward to some comments. This looks like a great site. I can't post pictures, probably because I am a new member, hopefully will be able to do so in a day or 2, or will have to upload to a site, and have them available there. My avatar picture is the guitar, although probably too small to tell much...

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome.

Starfire bass porn here.

Pretty much no one can upload pictures here - storage and legal issues that LTG doesn't want to deal with - but you can host them elsewhere and link to them.

Serial number makes it a 1967. The tiny avatar picture looks like it is a '66 or early '67 so all is good there. You mis-remembered the article, I believe. Guild changed the pickup (from the much desired Hagstrom Bisonic to the much less desired Guild humbucker) in 1970 but the neck position goes back to '65 or '66 (working from memory).

Bottom line, you are secure calling it a '67.

Neck dive? Really? I can't recall that any other Starfire player has mentioned it. Maybe we love the tone so much we will forgive the ergonomics?

My opinion is that the market is in a bit of flux. Guild has introduced the Newark Street Starfire Bass which is a new, made in Korea, interpretation of a 1966 "sweet spot" Starfire I bass. Depending upon folks react to the reverse engineered Bisonic that may effect the market for the vintage instruments.. As perhaps the only person on the planet who will admit to owning both a Newark Street and a '67 Starfire, I'm not convinced, yet, that the sound is the same but it is pretty darn close. Thus the vintage Bisonic will continue to command some value in the market place, at least until I put flats on the Newark Street for a better comparison.

If sentiment means something (spoken by someone who can't bring himself to sell his first real bass) or you love the sound then the advice would be to keep it because if you sell you will regret it and even if you try and replace it, the replacement will never be the same. If the sound is just the issue then you might be happy with the more readily available Newark Street if, and when, you decide you need that sound.

If you really think the grass is greener and decide to sell it is hard to advise without pictures. I have this fantasy that I could list my '67 for $2500 and get that but $2000 may be much more realistic. If the Newark Street availability really undercuts the vintage market than $2000 might be high. I believe the days of a '67 Starfire I with headstock overlay shrinkage going to a collector for $3500 are long gone.

 

[Default]

I would not be surprised to see the vintage market go the other way, now that mik Starfires are out.

 

[chazmo]

Great post, frono! Didn't mgod also pick up a Newark St. bass?

Steve, which is "the other way?"

 

[Oldbassguy]

Frono,

Thanks for the wonderful answer and information. Here are a bunch of pictures that show the defects pretty well, but also show a beautiful bass.

 

[Default]

The prices for vintage "pre-Korea" basses. The value of Guilds seem to be creeping up. Whether that's due to increased costs selling instruments (due to increased ebay and paypal fees) or the market recognizing Guilds as underpriced remains to be seen.
I don't see pre-CBS strats getting any cheaper because you can get a used squire version for a hundred bucks.

 

[Oldbassguy]

2 more pictures

A couple more pictures showing how one can use a bass to play cymbols occasionally...:hororr: and a picture in OHSC. Sorry it is dusty, been gone for a couple of years working...

 

[fronobulax]

Great post, frono! Didn't mgod also pick up a Newark St. bass?

mgod played one, without an amp, at NAMM but if he has purchased one, he hasn't shared that fact. His opinion ought to carry a whole lot more weight than mine

I'm a cynic and focused on players, not collectors, so I figure no rational person would buy vintage if they can get the same sound and feel at a lower price by going new. So I can see the vintage market declining.

But you could also say that between the "prefer to buy American, even if it costs more" crowd and the discerning players who believe they can hear a difference, the prices for vintage could go up.

 

[mavuser]

opinions will vary on this, and the market for those basses is a lot bigger than this forum. generally the new "reissue" Newark Street Starfire bass is expected to somewhat cool or tame the vintage market...but in my opinion...not really. i don't see that more than a dozen new ones have been made to this point. and I do not expect the market to be flooded with them at any point. anyone that buys one is likely to hang onto it for a good while. ive had one in my hands and it was everything it claimed to be and more.

But, since Guild left Westerly Rhode Island in the late 90's it's been a bit of a roller coaster. Right now you can get a brand new Korean Starfire bass, but for how long will we have that option? Guild as a brand has made a resurgence recently, but they tend to come and go over the years, and never in any mass quantities.

plus- yours is a sunburst, maple Starfire, with the pick up in the neck. The Newark Street Starfire is mahogany/sapele wood, red finish, and has the pick up at the bridge aka "sweet spot" (although the pup in the neck sounds pretty sweet to me!)

I would hang onto it, if you like it, even just a little. especially if it sounds anything like this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX7VU2MNPhI&list=PLDEB191151C0B0C63&index=56

 

[Oldbassguy]

I would hang onto it, if you like it, even just a little. especially if it sounds anything like this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX7VU2MNPhI&list=PLDEB191151C0B0C63&index=56

Mine could never sound like that - 2 reasons, I don't have Ampeg equipment, and I don't look like her :biggrin-new:

 

[SFIV1967]

i don't see that more than a dozen new ones have been made to this point.

It's been a bit more...
Ralf

 

[mavuser]

It's been a bit more...
Ralf

Ralf, thanks for clarifying.

I have seen a few on amazon, a few on ebay, and a few mentions of the others on this forum. they are certainly out there and up for grabs right now for anyone that wants one. there just doesnt seem to be very many of them.

as I mentioned in a different thread, I have played/heard the Newark Street bass. I think it sounds unreal and "very close" to what I know of both maple and mahogany 60's Starfires with the pup in both the neck and bridge postions. I am making a general statement and saying that it is right in the neighborhood it needs to be in. The new pick up is likely a dead ringer of the Hagstrom Bisonic. But really no 2 from the 60s will even sound identical, and with the varing woods and pick up postions, and probaly alot of other little things, you would really need the exact 1965? version of the Starfire that the Newark Street was designed after, to make the most fair comparison. Mind you the wood is 50 years younger...the pup is not to blame for that. When someone takes the new pup out of the Newark Street bass and throws it into a 60s Starfire bass, that person can tell us if they sound alike. Frono I am not asking you to take your basses apart and swap pups, and it's the last thing id do if I was in your shoes. Also in Frono's case, I don't expect the 2 basses to sound the same when one pup is in the neck position and the other pup is in the bridge position (and then the age of the wood and whatever other small differences)...I would imagine most Starfire 2 bass owners would tell me the brige pup sounds different than the neck pup.

I'd advise people to take the Newark Street bass for what it is (not "is this identical to a 60s Starfire bass") and if you do that, you wil be very happy. its not 100 percent a 60s Starfire. And Im not the type of person that can say its 90 percent or 75 percent or whatever. But it is 100 percent totally awesome and it plays like a dream. the neck plays just like a 66-68 fender mustang bass- it just feels like a regular guitar. hence the salesman pitch, "great bass for guitar players."

in my opinion the markets for vintage and new, are apples and oranges. in this case it is way too soon to say anyway because there are no used Newark Streets. Compared to a vintage, the Newark Street is a great deal for what it is. The one I had in my hands was blemished but I have full faith in the bass. I still say buy with confidence, and I still intend to aquire one at some point.

But the real money is in the vintage stuff. Condition is everything, and as time goes on, if you can keep one in decent shape and mostly original- it's only going to increase in value (for a thousand different reasons). It takes some patience to sell 4 figure guitars, but a 1967 Guild Starfire Bass is gonna find a new home alot faster than just about anything else in the same price range, set at a fair price. Is the Newark Street bass going to change that? No. It may take a LITTLE longer to sell an old one now, but no one is slashing their vintage prices because of the new Fender-owned Guild Koren Starfire reissue instrument. The reissue pup sounds right outta San Fransisco's summer of luv, but not going to be such a vintage market game changer monetarily (but it sure sounds like a million bucks!)

If anything, the value of the vintage instruments will only rise as a result of the reissues, no matter what the fate of the Newark Street turns out to be. Just look at Fender amps. people dont want the reissues for free (some of them sound amazing!) and yet u could send a kid to college on a 50s tweed that is due for a complete overhaul.

Bottom line a 1967 Starfire 1 in "excellent/very good vintage condition" with the original hard case is worth approx $2,500. And people are figuring out how to get all of that to themselves without using ebay or paypal. That instrument is an easy sale. people can afford that. the demand will only go up. the supply will only go down. their vintage age will only increase, and so will the value.

Oldbassguy made some general statements about "dings" that could mean a lot of things. I have no idea what his bass is worth, and I am not a professinal guitar merchant or appraiser. but your not going to find another one so easily. Cheers

 

[mavuser]

id like to add it appears unclear, if you buy a Newark Street bass online, whether or not you get the hard case. it might come with NOTHING. definately look into that if your considering buying one online/amazon/sam ash website. try to just get one in a regular store in the flesh from a real person, those definatley have hard cases.

 

[fronobulax]

To veer since folks don't seem to want to discuss the Newark Street bass in one place - my dealer said that only a handful had been shipped and were actually available from dealers today. He was quoting the Fender/Guild rep who had been in the store the week before. In context I don't know how many have been made but it is reasonable to believe that less than 100 are in the hands of dealers and consumers at this moment.

As for case, they ship from the factory with a case so if a dealer doesn't offer a case they are ripping you off. It should be noted that the web site does not say it comes with a case but it does say that it comes with a pickguard. I got a case, but not a pickguard

 

[SFIV1967]

It should be noted that the web site does not say it comes with a case ...

You don't read the webpage correctly! "w/Case" means "with Case"

Color / Part #:

Starfire™ Bass, Cherry Red, w/ Case

 

[mavuser]

the ones on amazon either say "case not included" or don't say anything at all-
http://www.amazon.com/Guild-Starfir...TF8&qid=1373548764&sr=8-1&keywords=guild+bass

sam ash website "case not included"-
http://www.samash.com/guild-starfire-bass-guitar-newark-st-collection-g2400866x

but i know if you walk into a sam ash store, you get the hard case.

Maybe the amazon and sam ash listings are incorrect, and you get a nice surprise in the form of a hard case when you receive it in the mail. But that is not how they are advertised.

the ones on ebay appear to include the hard case. At least the 2 that I clicked on did.


Frono feel free to relocate these posts to one of the Newark Street threads. Thanks

 

[dapmdave]

That '67 could be the brother to mine. Almost identical (mine is BA 857), but my headstock overlay looks a bit nicer, and your case is in much better shape.





I vote for having the values rise, please.

 

[SFIV1967]

That's really strange, if you go to Austin Bazaar webpage directly they show it with case...why the heck would they sell them on Amazon without case? Maybe they try to cover for the very high Amazon seller fee and sell the case for the Amazon listings extra?
http://www.austinbazaar.com/Guild-Newark-St-Starfire-Electric-Bass-Guitar-p/gui-3792400866.htm

I also would not understand why Sam Ash sells without a case. All strange, I agree. So point taken mavuser, it is better to check before buying a Newark St. model on the internet!

Ralf

 

[chazmo]

Ralf,

I think it could be a misprint, especially since it's Sam Ash... Those guys are relatively new Guild dealers, and they have not been known to make a game out of this to low sell products... That said, the obvious reason would be so they could sell the case separately. Pretty lame tactic.

 

[SFIV1967]

I would think it gives them a much harder time to pack and ship without a case, just imagine the possible damage claims coming back!
Ralf