N(old)GD: 1983 D212

[stevendv]

I didn't just get it today, got it 2 weeks ago, but I'm really liking it. My first 12 string was a Guild F-1512 I had to sell 18 months ago when we moved back to the US from Italy and I realized I'd been missing a 12 string ever since. The D212 seemed excessively jangly at first, without the low end boom of the F-1512 and I wondered if I made a mistake not getting a super jumbo, but that might have had something to do with the D212 not having been played for a long while, or maybe I just got used to it, but the lower end has come into its own and it's great.

Used from GC and the only flaw is a crack, which I assume is the type caused by a shrinking glued-on pick guard, common among Guilds? For $699 it seemed like a bargain, and had they simply cleaned it before putting it up for sale I suspect they might have asked a little more.

Though I do need to get a case for it... I've got my eye on a used TKL dreadnought case (the kind with a burgundy interior without the arched top).

I'd never even seen a D212 in person before, much less played one, but I'm assuming that extra little semi-circle of wood in the sound hole under the fret board is standard and not something inserted to stabilize the crack?

 

[GGJaguar]

Wow, that's a nice one, congrats! Dreadnaught twelves definitely have their own sound, but I like it because it is so different from jumbo 12ers! The way the crack goes all the way up to the edge of the body along with the deformation of the binding indicates that the neck block may be shifting. It needs to be checked by a qualified repair person sooner than later to stabilize it so it doesn't move any more.

 

[mavuser]

congrats i have the same guitar, had somewhat of a tough time finding a good fitting case for it though. it really needs a Guild dread case from mid 70s or later (make sure the headstock is big enough for a 12, most from mid 70s on are good)
However the Guild hard case for the recent Oxnardian D-20 (D-25 flatback mahogany top) is too small (headstock) for my 1981 D-212, so stick with Westerly/Corona/Tacoma era where u can (NH was also a little skitzy on the cases, they were hit or miss)

 

[stevendv]

Wow, that's a nice one, congrats! Dreadnaught twelves definitely have their own sound, but I like it because it is so different from jumbo 12ers! The way the crack goes all the way up to the edge of the body along with the deformation of the binding indicates that the neck block may be shifting. It needs to be checked by a qualified repair person sooner than later to stabilize it so it doesn't move any more.

That's very good to know, I'll definitely have it checked out, thank you. There's probably no standard answer to this question, but is it typically a big problem if some shifting has occurred? I just found a thread from last year in which Ralf put up some pics of a seriously shifted neck block and, boy, it looks like things can get awfully ugly with a shifting neck block!

 

[stevendv]

congrats i have the same guitar, had somewhat of a tough time finding a good fitting case for it though. it really needs a Guild dread case from mid 70s or later (make sure the headstock is big enough for a 12, most from mid 70s on are good)
However the Guild hard case for the recent Oxnardian D-20 (D-25 flatback mahogany top) is too small (headstock) for my 1981 D-212, so stick with Westerly/Corona/Tacoma era where u can (NH was also a little skitzy on the cases, they were hit or miss)

That's good to know about the cases. It fits perfectly in the case of my Martin Hd-28V, which has a bit of an arched top to it. So I'm hoping it will also fit in this Martin-style TKL case I'm going to see (though it doesn't have the arched top).

 

[wileypickett]

Nice!

A 12-string has more string pull than a six-string.

The problem, if unattended to, may get worse. But shifted neck blocks can be fixed -- I've had it done. The neck block on mine was more out of alignment than yours, and to get to it the neck had to be removed, which made for a pricy repair.

You got a great deal on the guitar though, so if you love the sound and playability you may decide the repair is justified.

 

[stevendv]

Nice!

A 12-string has more string pull than a six-string.

The problem, if unattended to, may get worse. But shifted neck blocks can be fixed -- I've had it done. The neck block on mine was more out of alignment than yours, and to get to it the neck had to be removed, which made for a pricy repair.

You got a great deal on the guitar though, so if you love the sound and playability you may decide the repair is justified.

I'll contact a luthier about it today to see when I can bring it in.

But I wonder, might it already have been addressed or does every D212 have that additional semi-circle of wood you can see on the fretboard side of the sound hole in the last 2 pics?

I also feel some similar pieces like that along the block itself beneath the sound board. There's nothing like than on any of my other guitars but I've never seen a D212 before (and or very large range of guitars at all) so I don't know if what seem like additional braces to me are actually standard.

The neck position itself, as seen in other pics, is good--at least at present!

 

[BradHK]

I agree that it looks like some work has been performed in the past. There also appears to be glue squeeze out beside the fretboard on the bass side indicating prior work. You may be correct that the issue has been addressed but I would take it to a luthier to inspect and confirm. Congrats, that looks great!

 

[SFIV1967]

But I wonder, ...does every D212 have that additional semi-circle of wood you can see on the fretboard side of the sound hole in the last 2 pics?

We would need to ask other D-212 owners but here was a great thread about the contruction of Guild dreadnaughts, no D-212 discussed there however:

A new view of some old dreads...

Altho’ my primary on-line guitar hangout is “Lets Talk Guild,” I have also spent a considerable amount of time over on the “Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum.” I have never joined UMGF, partly because I hear horror stories about the Yuko BB platform used, and also because I have no intention of...

letstalkguild.com

Ralf

 

[stevendv]

I agree that it looks like some work has been performed in the past. There also appears to be glue squeeze out beside the fretboard on the bass side indicating prior work. You may be correct that the issue has been addressed but I would take it to a luthier to inspect and confirm. Congrats, that looks great!

Thanks. I went to a luthier today who looked at it and noted, as you mentioned, the glue on the side of the fretboard and that work had been done and then he looked inside with a little scope at the semi-circular brace at the edge of the sound hole and saw some excess glue there, but couldn't tell if that brace came original with the guitar or was added later. Either way he didn't have any concern that the neck block was doing anything funny now and thought it seemed perfectly set up.

 

[stevendv]

We would need to ask other D-212 owners but here was a great thread about the contruction of Guild dreadnaughts, no D-212 discussed there however:

A new view of some old dreads...

Altho’ my primary on-line guitar hangout is “Lets Talk Guild,” I have also spent a considerable amount of time over on the “Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum.” I have never joined UMGF, partly because I hear horror stories about the Yuko BB platform used, and also because I have no intention of...

letstalkguild.com

Ralf

That's a great series of images and diagrams, Ralf, and while not directly indicative of my D212 it's fascinating in its own right and does show that the '94 DV-72MK NT HG had a sound hole reinforcement that entirely surrounded the hole.

So it's not hard to imagine that the semi-circular reinforcement stretching from about 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock if you've got the guitar placed upright on a stand and think of the sound hole as a clock as being part of the Guild factory's normal production of my '83 D212.

But it would be great to find out from another D212 owner if that's the case with their guitar (and from what year).

And is such bracing also present in the D25-12s that replaced the D212s?

 

[GGJaguar]

Great news! No worries now so enjoy playing!

 

[kitniyatran]

I know nothing about the 12 strings, but all I see in the pictures you refer to is the standard bracing I see in my d25 and jf30

 

[stevendv]

I know nothing about the 12 strings, but all I see in the pictures you refer to is the standard bracing I see in my d25 and jf30

That's great to know, so it seems it's just how they did on certain guitars, and at least at certain periods. My '68 F-30 doesn't have it, but that's a smaller body size of course.

 

[wileypickett]

I couldn't say off the top of my head which ones, but I know for sure some of my Guilds have that crescent of support under the end of the fretboard extension.

 

[davenumber2]

I recently sold an ‘81 D212M. I can’t swear to it 100% but I’m pretty sure there was no soundhole reinforcement brace like you have pictured.

 

[Cougar]

I went to a luthier today... he didn't have any concern that the neck block was doing anything funny now and thought it seemed perfectly set up.

Wow, you don't even need to get a setup! Actually, I was going to agree with you when you said "But I wonder, might it already have been addressed." With a neck block shift, it doesn't just crack, the side shifts down into the soundhole, by a millimeter or three. Yours has the crack, but no shift. PLUS, your neck angle looks to be perfect. That suggests to me that the prior neck block shift and neck angle could have been fixed with a prior neck reset, but I can't see where the neck meets the body very well. If there was no neck reset, that's a heck of a great neck angle for a nearly 40-year-old 12-string! I've got a couple of dread 12s, and yeah, they're just as fun to play as the jumbos. Major congrats!

 

[beecee]

Boy that top has mellowed nicely huh?

Enjoy that cannon!

 

[stevendv]

Wow, you don't even need to get a setup! Actually, I was going to agree with you when you said "But I wonder, might it already have been addressed." With a neck block shift, it doesn't just crack, the side shifts down into the soundhole, by a millimeter or three. Yours has the crack, but no shift. PLUS, your neck angle looks to be perfect. That suggests to me that the prior neck block shift and neck angle could have been fixed with a prior neck reset, but I can't see where the neck meets the body very well. If there was no neck reset, that's a heck of a great neck angle for a nearly 40-year-old 12-string! I've got a couple of dread 12s, and yeah, they're just as fun to play as the jumbos. Major congrats!

It'a hard to tell exactly what (or how much) was done, or when it might have been done, though the crack was definitely attended to at some point. In general though, there's very little sign of wear on the guitar, even in terms of little dings, and there's really no sign of wear from actually being played.

It was listed by GC as being in "Good" condition with just a single pic of the whole guitar to go by, but for the price I figured I could buy it, have it shipped from the Syracuse store where it originated from to the closer Danbury one and then see if I should just return it after it had arrived in the latter store. I was kinda expecting the worst. But, luckily, it arrived very well protected in bubble wrap and as the GC employee was unwrapping it, and a couple of his colleagues and me were standing around watching, we were all pleasantly surprised to see that as he revealed the headstock first it looked to be in brand new condition.

But maybe that's the good thing about 12 strings: while the extra string tension can over the years cause some problems, they also seem to be played less by those who buy them and never really take to them. Mine arrived at GC tuned down 1/2 a step and that's where I've kept it. Maybe the prior owner(s) kept it tuned down a bit all along?

 

[stevendv]

Boy that top has mellowed nicely huh?

Enjoy that cannon!

I was really struck by that, too! Except for the closeup of the bridge, saddle and pins, most of the pics I posted don't really capture its darker caramel tint. I don't know if it's only the effect of the years, or if Guild was doing some really nice things with their finishes during that period. I seem to recall seeing other images of D212s from '81-83 that also looked really nicely and darkly tinted. And I also like the "mahogany" finishes (on spruce tops) on Tom Petty's D212 and D25-12s from the '80s and '90s.

Though I love the burst on both your JF30-12 and Cougar's JF30-12!