NECK RESET on my D25???? WTF!!!

[Ridgemont]

hey fellow guild nuts,

well i have had a day to decompress and now i will tell you what happened. while i love the sound of my d25, i knew the saddle was pretty shot hence giving reduced volume and compromised tone. i took it in to a local shop i trust (guitar resurrection) and they suggested what i knew but didn't want to hear...NECK RESET. well crap, the guitar is only 13 years old and i bought it used so no warranty. i should have known better when i bought it, but i feel the shop should have warned me. i bought it from another shop in town and not guitar resurrection.

OK so here is the thing. it plays great right now. i play at home on the couch and don't need added volume. i do want to achieve the best tone from my guitars, but the tone now is good enough to have some compromise on the issue. bottom line is that i am no hurry. i will not shave the bridge to avoid a reset. but here are some things i wanted you to consider before i get your expert opinions:

1) i love the tone but i am not a dread kind of guy. of my three main guitars, here is the breakdown in playing time: 000-15 (50%), d25 (30%), GAD 30R (20%) As a side note i prefer mahogany over rosewood so the GAD gets little time, but that is a different issue all together. I like smaller guitars for comfort mainly. the balance of a small guitar is nice too, but i don't have issues with the deep bass of the d25. if the d25 were a small guitar, then it would get a lot more playing time.

2) i recently got the guitar and i do not have a strong bond or an emotional attachment with it. some of you have posted strong connections with certain guitars because they have been with you from day 1. i get that. but i do not really have it with this guitar. i like the idea, look, and sound of the guitar, but is it work spending a significant amount of money to make it perfect?

3) so here is my third point/issue....money. i bought it for 600. if i do a reset/refret with new bone comp. saddle and nut, i am estimating at least 400+. is it worth it to spend that much on a guitar that gets 30% playing time currently? and on a guitar i may sell down the road? and will i be able to recoup expenses for the overhaul?

4) it is a bummer that it needs a reset being a 13 year old guitar. i do play it and it is a joy when i do, but sometimes i struggle with secret wish that it was an F30. one reason i would like to keep it is it brings diversity to my small collection. i dont want to have a bunch of guitars that are too similar.

well there you have it. my dilema. thoughts? like i said i am in no hurry to get it done, but if i do, i will go all out and make it great.

btw, i apologize for such a large pic of the saddle.

 

[cuthbert]

If the volume of the guitar is enough and the action is just slightly too high you may also try to sand the bridge and make deeper slots for the pins, no reset necessary...

 

[killdeer43]

Ridge,
Could I request a few pics of the entire guitar?

No expert opinion here, but an opinion, nonetheless....lots going on in this query.
You expressed thoughts that you lack a "stong bond or emotional attachment" with the guitar. That thought alone, combined with the prospect of spending almost as much as you paid would give me pause to move forward.
You also seem to favor the smaller bodies ("I am not a dread kind of guy"), so maybe you need to use this one to fund another small body Guild, like a nice GF-25, or similar model.

More coffee, :wink:
Joe

 

[BenF]

It is hard to tell from the picture's angle - it looks like the bridge has become partly slotted through time, but could you not fully slot it and use non-slotted pins, thereby increasing the break angle slightly and giving you space to lower the saddle a little. It might only be a fraction, but it might give you the volume increase you are looking for in the short term. It shouldn't affect resale, because many people have it done as a preference anyway - it isn't necessarily a sign of a bad neck angle.

Just a thought.

The picture doesn't show that bad a break angle really - are you sure the bottom of the saddle is 100% flat? I wouldn't think that break angle would compromise volume yet. The top of the saddle is very flat, which might be more of an issue. It looks as though there may almost be two contact points there (sketch below - sorry about my artistic talent)

Ben

 

[taabru45]

O.K. Read this blog carefully, and have your luthier read it too. It is a much less expensive way that could address the problem and looks promising in a case like yours. regards, Steffan
http://mrglyn.blogspot.com/2008/11/yama ... tring.html

 

[kostask]

Sorry to say, but there is no definitive answer to your question. It is a question of how much you value the guitar, your anticipated usage (long term, I know it it 30% now from your post), and how that would change if the neck reset were done, and the anticipated improvement in tone changed your opinions. I honestly do believe that the guitar's tone will improve, possibly significantly, but you will only know by how much after the neck reset was done.

I am in disagreement with the with the sanding of the bridge idea. All it ends up doing is allowing for a better action, and delaying the required neck reset for a short period of time. In return for this, you face the possibility of cracking the bridge, and the certainty that you will not only be paying for a neck reset, but also for a new bridge and the labor required to remove and replace the bridge on top of the cost of the neck reset.

Slipping the neck block is not commonly done except on certain guitars, like the 1970s Yamaha (due to the use of epoxy in the dovetail making it almost impossible to do a neck reset at a reasonable cost, on a fairly low cost guitar to start with). It is also done on classical guitars with the Spanish heel neck construction technique, due to there not being a separate neck block and neck. This "slipping the neck block" is forced by those particular neck joints; in general, they are not done with guitars having regular dovetail neck joints (glued or bolted), as it introduces problems of its own (distortion of the sides, etc.). I'm not even sure that there is a significant cost savings to be had doing this vs. a regular neck reset.

Kostas

 

[Ridgemont]

hello peoples,

at the request of killdeer, i have posted a couple more snapshots of the guitar in question. my original concern was the height of the saddle, which is rather low, but may have some room to go. as for the break angle, i posted a better pic of it so you will have to be the judge. personally, i don't think it is that bad. the guitar sure doesn't sound bad. the intonation of the low strings gets pretty bad up the neck, one reason to desire a compensated saddle. i should mention that the action is perfectly fine at the moment so there is no issue there.

 

[killdeer43]

Thanks for the photos, Ridge.
That's a good looking D25 so keep it or sell it to me! :wink:
I just feel that you might make a few minor adjustments and be as happy as that proverbial clam. I had to make a few when I got my 25 and now I'd be hard pressed to let her go.
That arched back does project!

Joe

 

[Ridgemont]

I am in disagreement with the with the sanding of the bridge idea. All it ends up doing is allowing for a better action, and delaying the required neck reset for a short period of time. In return for this, you face the possibility of cracking the bridge, and the certainty that you will not only be paying for a neck reset, but also for a new bridge and the labor required to remove and replace the bridge on top of the cost of the neck reset.

In total agreement here. As I had mentioned in my beginning post, shaving or sanding of the bridge will not be an option for me. I do not want to compromise the integrity of the rest of the guitar for a quick temporary fix.

 

[6L6]

Sell it and get something that will make you happy.

6

 

[TonyT]

IMHO, forget the reset and sell it or play it.. There's zero chance of selling that guitar down the road for $1000. Even the best D25 won't bring that. Sell in to Killdeer and I'll talk him out of it in a few months.

 

[killdeer43]

Sell in to Killdeer and I'll talk him out of it in a few months.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nice to know you've got my back, Tony.
BTW, JP will be walking out on stage in a little over 25 hours! Dang! Another sleepless night north of Seattle! :wink:

Joe

 

[EddieZ]

Hi Ridge,

I also use Guitar Resurrection here in Austin. Recently I purchased a F212XL and all hog D25 arch back from individuals. GuitarRez recommended a local luthier named Dick Dubois, he does all the warranty work for Collings Guitars 3 days a week, then works out of his home doing repairs. I have the 212 back now, he did an excellent job. It really sounds great and plays easy. He discussed options and kept the price reasonable. PM me and I'll give you more details. You can contact him at 924-9652.

Regards,
EddieZ
Austin, Tx

 

[GardMan]

See Frank Ford's discussion of "ramping" the bridge...

 

[Ridgemont]

See Frank Ford's discussion of "ramping" the bridge...

Interesting fix. The saddle on my D25 fortunately is not as bad as that guitar. I will have to check when I get home, but I believe I may already have ramps in the bridge.

 

[Ridgemont]

Hi Ridge,

I also use Guitar Resurrection here in Austin. Recently I purchased a F212XL and all hog D25 arch back from individuals. GuitarRez recommended a local luthier named Dick Dubois, he does all the warranty work for Collings Guitars 3 days a week, then works out of his home doing repairs. I have the 212 back now, he did an excellent job. It really sounds great and plays easy. He discussed options and kept the price reasonable. PM me and I'll give you more details. You can contact him at 924-9652.

Regards,
EddieZ
Austin, Tx

Thanks Eddie, yes I have spoken to Dick a few times and he is highly regarded in the Austin area. He does all the high end restoration work for GuitarRez. Also, Scratch's go to guy, Ross, would be another person to consult. It sure wouldn't hurt to get other opinions about the issue.

 

[Ridgemont]

You also seem to favor the smaller bodies ("I am not a dread kind of guy"), so maybe you need to use this one to fund another small body Guild, like a nice GF-25, or similar model.

Joe, you are an enabler. :wink: Now I just can't stop thinking about it.

evil evil evil evil evil......

 

[fungusyoung]

My '92 D25 looked very similar to yours.

Man, did somebody ever abuse it because it needed a neck re-set pretty badly. Pretty sure it was stored in VERY hot attic for a few years or something. I ended up giving mine away to a friend because I couldn't see repairing it for what it would have cost, plus I felt like I'd get next to nothing if I sold it & even if I sold it under full disclosure, I could just imagine somebody later complaining anyways.

Gosh, it still sounds sweet, though. My friend enjoys it because she plays cowboy chords & doesn't have any issues with the high action further down the board. I played it again mid/late last year & it still sounds oh so sweet. I hate it when bad things happen to great sounding guitars.

 

[Ridgemont]

Man, did somebody ever abuse it because it needed a neck re-set pretty badly. Pretty sure it was stored in VERY hot attic for a few years or something.

I hear you. I always wonder what happened to it before it was mine. A bunch of bands come out of Austin, and it happens that this one originally belonged to one of the guys in Spoon. I guess when they finally made it big, they decided to "upgrade." Caught them on Conan O'Brian last year and they were playing Gibsons. Anyway, if this guitar traveled, there is no doubt that it may have been stored in non-ideal conditions. All in all, it is in great condition. Minimal checking, a couple of dings, and the shaved saddle are the only thing that I can see. Currently, the action is low and perfect. I am just worried about future needs.

 

[plaidseason]

I thought I posted this before . . . but I'm not sure what happened.

Anyway . . .

It's a D25, which is an awesome workhorse, but it's not a Santa Cruz OMPW.

Guild bridges are on the thicker side and I don't thinkin you're risking any structural stability by having yours sanded.

Sand the bridge, ramp the strings and I bet you'll be a very happy man.

-Chris