New D-40 or early 70's D-35/40?

[RCW]

Hi guys. My first acoustic was a 72 D-35. Of course I sold it when I needed some cash around 1980. I have a couple Martins: an HD-28 and a MMV dreadnought (basically a D-16 RGT). The HD-28 has loads of chime and overtones while the MMV has a simpler, purer tone pallet. Both are rosewood. Anyway, I've been thinking about getting a mahogany Guild for awhile and for our anniversary my wife gave me a "Get yourself a Guild" card. So what's better, a 50 year old D-35/40 or a new D-40 Standard/Traditional?

There's also a 72 D-44M available. I remember drooling over one back around 75, but I had a SJ-200 for awhile and just didn't like how bright it was.

Got some suggestions?

 

[GGJaguar]

Welcome to LTG! I suppose this could be a "heart vs head" problem, i.e. - nostalgia for your old D-35 or something newer/different. The Oxnard-made D-40 has been getting high praise here (my F-40 is amazing). The newer models are light weight and very responsive. Also, with the newer guitar there would likely be less repair headaches if any (no neck re-sets, crack repairs, cosmetic issues, etc). So many choices! Good luck with your hunt and let us know what you decided to get!

 

[Stuball48]

What a conflict to have. Your wife will get my vote for "wife of the year" on the LTG forum.

 

[davismanLV]

Hey RCW, welcome to LTG! Such decisions! I was waffling back and forth about your choices until I saw D-44M. That would be my choice. I love maple guitars. My maple Guild dread is amazing, but it's an arched back one. I'm fairly sure the D-44M is a flat back one. But even so, it's still a tough decision. I'm with @GGJaguar that the older guitars are great but come with some age on them and the new one will be a warrantied guitar. There's a peace of mind that comes with that. Either way, let us know which way you go.... and we'll want some photos, too!!

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome.

In general the arguments in favor of a new instrument include the warranty and the expectation that it will not need any major work in the near term, i.e. neck reset. The Buyer does not have to worry about the Buyer's knowledge of the fiddly details of condition and the Buyer will probably know the story of every scratch and ding.

Vintage instruments can cost less. Without defining how or why, there are a lot of anecdotes about aged instruments that sound better now than when they were new. The Buyer does need to be comfortable with the Buyer's ability to assess condition.

In a perfect world where you can always find new Guilds in stores, I would suggest you play both and pick. More realistically I would advise playing the vintage instrument and going for it if you fall in love. But if logistics are a challenge then just order the new one.

I don't think there is a valid blanket generality that correctly says you would find one better than the other. So you need to consider other factors to guide your search.

 

[Guildedagain]

No waffling needed, a vintage D35/D40 in good nick and you'll be very happy.

A new guitar will impress someone who hasn't handled older ones, the way I see it. I just went to the big city yesterday, biggest acoustic room in town in store that opened in 1913, and outside of an old Vineyard guitar, all the the weird no gloss Gibsons and new Martins can't touch an old Guild, not even close. Sad to see what's happened to guitars, turning into cheap junk. The Squier Mustang's body was only 1" thick, the guitars look like toys.

 

[twocorgis]

Of all of the guitars you mentioned, a new D40 Traditional would be my choice. Mine is the best D40 I've ever played, and I've played and owned a lot of them. An incredible guitar for the money that can hang with my best mahogany dreads.

 

[E-Type]

If you prefer high action on your guitar (>0.12" on the E string at the 12th fret), then there are tons of old guilds to choose from online. Of course, not easy to play one of those before buying. However, if you prefer lower action like I do (< 0.09"), then it becomes considerably tougher. Only made worse by sellers who think that anything less than 1/8" is "low action" and means "the guitar won't need a neck reset for a long time." And it's rare to find an older one that has not had its saddle taken about as low as it can go (and sometimes too low, but among 20 pics of the sides and back, a good pic of the saddle is not common either). I pretty much figure in $500 t0 $800 of work for almost any of the pre 2000 ones I consider. That being said, getting someone good to reset and refret a guitar can get you a really great player.

 

[jfilm]

A vote for vintage... only because, you seem to have some nostalgia for your 1972 D-35 that you gave up, so I think that might be something you want to get back. Also, your Martin MMV is a newish model (2005 or later), don't know about the HD-28, but those are no earlier than 1976, so I'll assume it's not too old either. Might be nice to add something older to what you already have.

If buying online, it's tough without playing the guitar first, and vintage guitars can be a gamble, but, if you're patient you should be able to find something that either has a good original neck angle, or has already had the neck reset work done (or whatever other expensive repairs, like a refret) from a seller that knows what they have and knows how to describe the condition. Sure, there are plenty of older Guilds out there with no saddle and that need neck resets, etc., but, look for the sellers that actually talk about neck angle, show photos of the saddle, can tell you the measurement of the action, have a return policy, etc. They're out there (yes, as mentioned, they are somewhat rare).

All the Hoboken Guilds I've played have been great- and other people on this forum have mentioned early 1970s Westerly as being a good era, like the '72 D-44M you are looking at. So that's my vote. I agree with the others though about the pros and cons of new vs. old, etc., so it'll come down to what you're comfortable with. Also, as for newer (post Westerly) Guilds, I did once have an amazing Tacoma era DV-4. The neck was too chunky for me, otherwise it would have been a keeper. And it made me wonder how good a Tacoma D-40 must be. So I guess what I'm saying is you can't go wrong either way. Have fun searching.

 

[E-Type]

While there are great sellers out there, I'll just caution that most are sloppy at best. When I sell a guitar, I note the neck width and thickness at the 1st, 5th, and 12th fret and the action at the 12th fret along with the height of the saddle. As getting these measurements takes all of 5 minutes, it blows me away how few sellers offer that or even pics of the saddle and action. If your BS detector goes off, be ready to walk away. That being said, I have a '74 D-25 that is my favorite guitar. I did get it at GC which has a return policy, and that helped a lot.

 

[Boneman]

Tough call. As noted, it’s hard to find new Guilds for sale in person, so either way you might be looking at buy before you try. Given that, I’d suggest brand new, at least you shouldn’t have any surprise repairs needed anytime soon after buying it. Lot of love for Oxnard era Guilds here too as you’ll see.

 

[fronobulax]

While there are great sellers out there, I'll just caution that most are sloppy at best. When I sell a guitar, I note the neck width and thickness at the 1st, 5th, and 12th fret and the action at the 12th fret along with the height of the saddle. As getting these measurements takes all of 5 minutes, it blows me away how few sellers offer that or even pics of the saddle and action.

Personality and education are a factor. I get very annoyed when people waste my time asking me questions and I don't think they are going to actually do anything different because of the answers. That very quickly slips into if I don't understand why you are asking or how they might use the info then I resent the questions. The only reason I know about action, nut width and neck angle as factors of importance to people is because of what I have learned at LTG.

I cannot predict the circumstances that get the Guilds of La Casa de Fronobulax on the market. If they are for sale because we need grocery money then I will try and pre-emptively take all of the measurements I can before listing. I will suck it up and answer questions. But if it is not about raising money then I would find a way for a no-questions, in-person sale so that the buyer knows what they are getting and I have have my five minutes and no frustration.

Just a cautionary tale not to judge a seller because they are not doing things your way. Indeed there are several stories about sellers who wanted to do what the buyer thought was "the right thing" but didn't know how. They buyer patiently took the time to help the seller gather the information and both parties ended up happy.

 

[E-Type]

Personality and education are a factor. I get very annoyed when people waste my time asking me questions and I don't think they are going to actually do anything different because of the answers. That very quickly slips into if I don't understand why you are asking or how they might use the info then I resent the questions. The only reason I know about action, nut width and neck angle as factors of importance to people is because of what I have learned at LTG.

I cannot predict the circumstances that get the Guilds of La Casa de Fronobulax on the market. If they are for sale because we need grocery money then I will try and pre-emptively take all of the measurements I can before listing. I will suck it up and answer questions. But if it is not about raising money then I would find a way for a no-questions, in-person sale so that the buyer knows what they are getting and I have have my five minutes and no frustration.

Just a cautionary tale not to judge a seller because they are not doing things your way. Indeed there are several stories about sellers who wanted to do what the buyer thought was "the right thing" but didn't know how. They buyer patiently took the time to help the seller gather the information and both parties ended up happy.

No doubt that buying local is the best option for sure. I am just cautioning potential buyers of 30-60 year old guitars that sellers are generally not going to note that the guitar they are listing at $2,000 and as in "very good" or even "excellent" condition might need $800 worth of work. I am not saying that most sellers try to hide the condition, but you just cannot assume they will meet your expectations. I post a tone of detail on my listings and rarely have anyone ask questions.

I should also note that I was at a local guitar shop lately and a brand new Martin D-17 had low-E action at the 12th fret that was over 1/8". It had plenty of saddle to work with, but I wouldn't have expected that.

 

[davenumber2]

I think a lot of sellers just don't know about neck angle, action, how to properly measure action, how to measure relief, amount of saddle left, what a neck reset is, how to check for loose braces, etc. I have some guitar playing buddies that don't know anything technical about guitars and they don't care to learn. It seems to me that you should have some knowledge about what you're playing but some guys just want to play and don't care about the rest. I think as a seller you should know what you're selling and have the measurements or at least good pictures, especially for an older instrument.

 

[Norrissey]

So what's better, a 50 year old D-35/40 or a new D-40 Standard/Traditional?

Lots of good suggestions and advice above. I have a '71 D40 and a '71 D35 and they are both exceptional. However, to get them to where they play exceptionally had to spend quite a lot of time and money getting them refretted and replacing saddles and nuts etc. I tried a D40 Traditional in a store once and thought it was one of the nicest guitars I have ever played right off the rack. BUT the sound was quite different from the old guitars, I think in large part because the D40 Traditional has scalloped bracing - it sounded more like a really nice Martin D18 to me. The D40 and D35 I own have very full, even, resonant sound - arguably not as delicate as the D40 Traditional. If you are able to try out the guitars before you buy them that would be ideal. Then you could decide which sound and feel is right for you.

 

[Br1ck]

I'd almost rather buy a guitar in need of a neck reset and whatever else. The problem is a seller's reluctance to face reality. I would not want to have more than $1600 in a pre 73 D 35. There may still be one for that at Sylvan in Santa Cruz with a clean bill of health. Otherwise buy one for $500 and send it to Mr Fixit. Try finding one like that though.

 

[RCW]

Guys, I finally made a decision! I almost bought a 74 D44M, but the seller was put off by how many questions I was asking. He asked if he was going to have problems with me! That told me I was talking with the wrong seller.

So I found a used 2019 D-40 Traditional with antique sunburst finish at 40% off the price of a new one. It does have a couple almost invisible cracks in the finish, but it sounds great, plays great and looks great. I've attached a picture.

So I have a question: can cracks in a nitrocellulose finish be repaired?

 

[Heath]

I personally would leave them. Finish cracks cause no harm and you even said they are practically invisible. I’d leave them and just play beautiful guitar.

 

[davismanLV]

But to answer your question, yes. Lacquer can be repaired. One of the unique properties of lacquer is that it acts as it's own solvent. Lacquer melts into lacquer and forms a single layer. So it's very repairable. That spruce top is beautiful! Almost looks like Adirondack but I don't think it is. Either way, congrats!!

 

[Br1ck]

To me this is old wood/ old guitar maintenance vs new wood/ problem free experience. No new guitar will not sound like an old one. It will likely be a modern resonance is in style guitar. Nothing wrong with that. My 70 D 35 has an old wood dryness I've learned to love, with a very balanced tone, plus 50 years of bruises. I also spent $1100 on neck reset, bridge, nut, saddle, etc. to get it working properly. The neck is perfect for me too. So here is another answer in the I did this, you should too vein.