New guitar with old pickups vs old guitar ?

[JohnW63]

I have been watching the usual suspects to keep an eye on old enough to be desirable, but not old enough to be collectible priced guitars. There's a cool SF IV on ebay right now. The one thing that seems to make me hesitant is the unknown or undisclosed wear on an older guitar. Most often, my fear is something like a neck reset or other neck related issue. I have also seen older pickups that are used on these guitars sold separately. A pair of HB-1s just went for $262 on eBay. In a desire to have classic sound on a guitar that would be more likely to be solid and not have issues, how viable is getting a much newer Starfire IV and swapping pickups ? I understand ones from the late 90s can have various pickups fit in the top. Is the old construction make a big difference in the tone and playability of the guitar that I just can get with a new "chassis" for old electronics ?

 

[JohnW63]

As an example, here is a 96 SF IV for a bit more than the 72 SF IV. Are those HB-1s or Seymore Duncan pickups ? Which would YOU choose ? Old or new ?

Forgot to add in the picture:

 

[dapmdave]

Our member "GAD" covered the variations of later pickups (HB-1, Duncan HB-1, Fender HB-1) in his excellent blog, which
can be found here: http://www.gad.net/Blog/2011/11/25/guild-full-sized-hb1-and-sd1-pickup-variations/

As I understand it, you CAN put many different pickups in a late 90's Guild without any cutting, but not HB-1s.

 

[Zelja]

^^^^
I did a straight swap between the Seymour Duncan pickups (SD-1s - as probably pictured above) and some 70s HB-1s on a '97 SF4 with no issues at all. I believe you can't just do a straight drop in of HB-1s on the later guitars with the Fender pickups (with the narrower spacing between the adjustment screws & standard humbucker size).

 

[JohnW63]

^^^^
I did a straight swap between the Seymour Duncan pickups (SD-1s - as probably pictured above) and some 70s HB-1s on a '97 SF4 with no issues at all. I believe you can't just do a straight drop in of HB-1s on the later guitars with the Fender pickups (with the narrower spacing between the adjustment screws & standard humbucker size).

How did you like the result ?

 

[AcornHouse]

In the case of Starfires (and most of the other archtops that crossed eras), in addition to any pickup differences, there is a difference in the instruments themselves. The older SFs are lighter, both in construction and finish, and the neck width and shape is different. I have a '65 SF IV and have tried a '90s version. The earlier one fits me much better, I couldn't really get comfortable with the later one. It doesn't mean one is better than the other, one is just better for ME.

Any guitar, from any era, may have issues. Mine needed a refret. Maintenance and repair are just part of the game with any used/vintage instrument. You just have to decide what you want to have to deal with. Once addressed, there's no longer an issue.

 

[adorshki]

Most often, my fear is something like a neck reset or other neck related issue.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I seem to recall that with electrics the potential for needing a neck reset is very low for a couple of reasons:
First, overall string tension is very low, second, some of 'em have bolted-on necks.
Not sure which Guild models that applies to, though, I think only a couple of solid-bodies.

 

[dapmdave]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, please, but I seem to recall that with electrics the potential for needing a neck reset is very low for a couple of reasons:
First, overall string tension is very low, second, some of 'em have bolted-on necks.
Not sure which Guild models that applies to, though, I think only a couple of solid-bodies.

Sometimes you have to shim a bolt-on neck, which is the functional equivalent of a reset. Happens with electrics and bolt-on acoustics (Taylors, for one example). Adjustable bridges and saddles helps a lot with most of the electric guitars.

 

[Zelja]

How did you like the result ?

I felt there was a definite improvement in the bridge pickup - more magic & character with the HB-1. Not so sure with the neck as I thought the HB-1 there sounded a little tubbier (or fuller if you want a positive spin on it) than the original SD-1, which is not what I personally prefer. This may be able to be tempered by some pickup adjustment. Have been meaning to revisit the neck pickup for further tests.

In the case of Starfires (and most of the other archtops that crossed eras), in addition to any pickup differences, there is a difference in the instruments themselves. The older SFs are lighter, both in construction and finish, and the neck width and shape is different. I have a '65 SF IV and have tried a '90s version. The earlier one fits me much better, I couldn't really get comfortable with the later one. It doesn't mean one is better than the other, one is just better for ME.

Yep, 60s & 90s starfires are different instruments, even without the electronics.

 

[adorshki]

Sometimes you have to shim a bolt-on neck, which is the functional equivalent of a reset. Happens with electrics and bolt-on acoustics (Taylors, for one example). Adjustable bridges and saddles helps a lot with most of the electric guitars.

Thanks. In either case though it's a whole lot cheaper than the type of reset an acoustic flat-top requires, which I think was John's primary worry.

 

[TVeye]

There are many considerations in the "one vs the other" discussion. As mentioned, the necks are different. Nut width, fret size and shape, fret board radius and neck shape.
Old wood from hundred year old trees was available in the 70's...... not so much now or even in the 90's.
The lacquer finishes on vintage guitars tended to be applied thinner and made of more organic materials than modern lacquer finishes and very different from poly urethane finishes.
In the 60's and 70's cost cutting to be competitive was done by reducing the man hours it took to make a guitar by leaving off certain details and "bling."
As the decades progressed this practice continued but also included outsourcing and the use of cheaper materials and parts.
"New" arched top guitars from Guild are also, obviously, Made in Korea.

None of this may matter to you, a new guitar could actually suit you better and there's nothing wrong with that, but there is more than price to consider.
Old guitars are not more expensive just 'cause they're old.