Newark Street ROTD

[GGJaguar]

Yeah, a rant of the day. For the most part, I'm okay with the NS line, mainly the Korean-made models. But sometimes their construction technique gets squarely in my crosshairs (like today!). I wish they would have followed the vintage construction a little more closely - a thicker top with a strongly formed arch and parallel braces with wider placement. The photo below is of my '65 T-100D and the '23 NS Starfire III Dyna. Both have maple bodies. You can clearly see how the SF-III's top is practically flat compared to the T-100D.





The narrow angle braces require them to be cut to accommodate the pickups, weakening the support they provide. That, plus a 3 mm thick top compared to a 4 mm thick top found on the vintage Guild, could be part of the reason the tops are not strongly arched. It certainly affects the acoustic voice of the guitars. The T-100D is loud with a strong midrange (as expected on an archtop). The NS Starfire is not as loud and is muddy by comparison.

I wish Guild would consider making some GSR models at Terada paying closer attention to vintage details. Terada knows how to do archtops right. Even if the cost of a GSR Starfire is similar to Gretsch reissues made by Terada, they would be worth it (for me at least).

Thus ends the Newark Street ROTD.

 

[chazmo]

I wish Guild would consider making some GSR models at Terada paying closer attention to vintage details...

Well, they started that way when they introduced the MIK electrics (Newark Street) back during Guild's 60th anniversary year. Yeah, I'm sure they've drifted off the mark since then, GG.

Hard to know whether the changes you refer to are due to cost cutting or whether they have lost some of their interest in reviving the past models as they were. In any case, good rant.

 

[GGJaguar]

Hard to know whether the changes you refer to are due to cost cutting

I'll bet Mike Lewis would know the whole story, but I think you're right about hitting a price point and being "close enough". They are still nice guitars and I don't usually think about my ROTD when I play my NS models. But today it hit like a ton o' bricks.

 

[Default]

Terada isn't a place of magic. Guild could change the design documents to correct those issues, but they don't seem to care.
It's not like when Gretsch was making a comeback and knew they were good when the complaints on GDP stopped.

 

[HeyMikey]

It has to be a conscious decision, but why? Cost/price point, sure. I wonder how much it has to do with how the target market uses these instruments today vs decades ago. in the past there was more reliance on the guitar’s acoustic tone, pickups and amp vs today’s ability to manipulate tone with layered stomp boxes and computers. No need to go to great $ lengths for acoustic tone as long as it plays well and can handle electronics well.

 

[chazmo]

I'll bet Mike Lewis would know the whole story, but I think you're right about hitting a price point and being "close enough". They are still nice guitars and I don't usually think about my ROTD when I play my NS models. But today it hit like a ton o' bricks.

Mike is the guy for sure. If you have any contact with him, please ask what might be going on. On the other hand, I doubt Mike has been involved any more with the Newark Street models since Guild was split off from Fender back in 2014...

You're allowed to rant, GG! I hate when I know that something I care about has been cheapened due to cost-cutting or neglecting past lessons.

 

[chazmo]

Terada isn't a place of magic. Guild could change the design documents to correct those issues, but they don't seem to care.
It's not like when Gretsch was making a comeback and knew they were good when the complaints on GDP stopped.

I don't know, Steve. Sometimes I think we're barking at the wind. Other times, small groups of fans (like us) sometimes pull more than our weight.

 

[GGJaguar]

Sometimes I think we're barking at the wind.

Woof!

 

[Walter Broes]

a couple of observations :

-Top thickness does vary with vintage Guilds, and goes from very thin to pretty thick. They do have more arch and recurve than most asian made archtops, and yes, I agree that that makes for a different sound. a lot of Asian-made archtops have a feeble arch and no recurve whatsoever.

-I wouldn't worry much about current budget archtops' tops caving in. I have only seen it happen on Korean Peerless archtops that had very non-traditional construction - no top bracing (!) or some kind of strange ladder bracing.
The Hoboken Guilds we know and love were laminated with animal glue, current asian made laminate is epoxy between the wood layers, so they're half glass comparatively speaking - I don't think they'll move much. I'm 100% convinced that's a pretty big factor in why these guitars sound different too.

-Terada Made Gretsches were awful before Mike Lewis got involved - night and day difference between the pre- and post FMIC guitars.

 

[LesB3]

I don't know that I'd say the Terada Gretshes were awful. They might not have been "vintage spec" and may have been better, post-Mike Lewis, but that doesn't make them awful.

 

[Walter Broes]

The pre-Fender Gretsches were overbuilt - heavy and as a result often dead sounding. The tops and backs were needlessly thick, and the sides were so thick the guitars didn't have kerfing because they didn't need it - enough glue surface with just the rims!

They also had extremely cheap and sub-par pots, switches and jacks - the very reason TV Jones started selling Gretsch wiring harnesses.

 

[Rocky]

I wish Guild would consider making some GSR models at Terada paying closer attention to vintage details. Terada knows how to do archtops right. Even if the cost of a GSR Starfire is similar to Gretsch reissues made by Terada, they would be worth it (for me at least).

Terada does do things right on archtops. I encountered a Fuji Gen (pro-line) Gretsch where the top by the f-holes was warped/distorted so that one side of f-hole stuck up out of curve with the rest of the top.

 

[GGJaguar]

the top by the f-holes was warped/distorted so that one side of f-hole stuck up out of curve with the rest of the top.

My Korean Newark Street CE-100D was like that. So is my Korean Gretsch Electromatic 12-string.

 

[guitarlover]

The korean CED 100 is the only Guild model that is reported to have "a collapsing top" problem sometimes . At least I think so ;-)

I am not too worried about the cutouts in the bracing to be honest. The bracing is thick enough i my opinion and the strength of a supporting "beam" is mainly in the thickness not the "width".

 

[Default]

You *could* put in soundposts. It's not difficult. I have a CE-100D already, so I doubt I would ever have the desire for a NS. Shame that the bracing wasn't positioned to avoid routing a pocket in them. I would think that would have been picked up in the CAD design.

 

[GGJaguar]

The korean CED 100 is the only Guild model that is reported to have "a collapsing top" problem sometimes

Well, mine had a sinking top and I got rid of it.

 

[Walter Broes]

Oh wow really? So maybe thát's why that NS model got discontinued so quickly!

 

[guitarlover]

Well, mine had a sinking top and I got rid of it.

That's a shame for such a nice looking and sounding guitar. Do you know this was "general" problem for this model ? Like Walter said, the fact that it was dicontinued so quickly suggests this.

 

[GGJaguar]

Do you know this was "general" problem for this model ?

I've heard about it anecdotally so it didn't really concern me when I bought mine (it was used) because on the interwebs one bad guitar experience can be amplified across various platforms. But sure enough, my top began to sink (for strings I was using 11s and then switched to 10s, but made no difference). The top became so flat that the guitar's voice became darker and boomy. It might have been okay for jazz, but I'm not a jazzbo.