NGD: 1962 Guild "Black" Starfire II (or III) - wow!!
- Thread starter valcotone
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2007
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- 13,648
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- Philly, or thereabouts
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DeA Starfires are on my bucket list. I figure that if things fall into place, I might be in the market in the summer. ;-)
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
So you're parting this guitar out on Ebay right now? Not so cool, but hey, it's your guitar.
hi Walter.... It's not my usual mode of operation either, but I think in this case it's the best option. Thanks to another LTG member who identified the monkey business with the neck that I overlooked.... in hindsight and with the details that were provided to me it's kind of obvious now, but oh well.... Thanks for your feedback.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2007
- Messages
- 13,648
- Reaction score
- 3,075
- Location
- Philly, or thereabouts
- Guild Total
- 11
-1 or less
K.O.M.A.
Member
+1 to that
If you're commenting on the parting out of an old Guild... where do you think the parts come from when you need something for a guitar? Organ donors like these.
If this one wasn't compromised (the neck is modified), then it wouldn't have been parted out.
I respect these old guitars just as much as the next Guild fan, but this one didn't make sense to keep together.
Default, I hope you find a DeArmond Starfire in your future at some point.
If this one wasn't compromised (the neck is modified), then it wouldn't have been parted out.
I respect these old guitars just as much as the next Guild fan, but this one didn't make sense to keep together.
Default, I hope you find a DeArmond Starfire in your future at some point.
drc
Senior Member
So put out the fire and explain the neck issue? Or did I miss that post?
All the details are here.... it's already sold, so I'm not pushing the auction...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181395835116
ladytexan
Senior Member
Seeing this 50+ year old Guild end this way makes me sad. :sad:
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drc
Senior Member
I re-read this entire thing and still don't see where someone mentions a neck issue.. I must be getting old.
The neck issue is described in the auction description section. Says the neck was slimmed down, not at the nut, but along and up the finger-board, perhaps to make the rest of the neck feel slim like the feel at the nut. Also says the neck may have been removed and reinstalled, as well as refinished, all significant matters to most collectors.
Valcotone measures his neck at the 20th (last) fret and says the neck width is 2.05" Well, I measured my '66 SF III neck at the 20th and it is 2.187" wide at the 20th fret. The difference is .137".
So, if '66 and '63 SF necks are built about the same, then somebody 'thinned down' the Black Fire neck by a bit more than an 1/8th of an inch!
Not trying to start a big debate, but it sounds like a reason to part it out to me. The eBay buyer has fair notice about the Neck Mod and the great majority of people who don't want a skinnied-down neck don't have to worry about it.
Valcotone measures his neck at the 20th (last) fret and says the neck width is 2.05" Well, I measured my '66 SF III neck at the 20th and it is 2.187" wide at the 20th fret. The difference is .137".
So, if '66 and '63 SF necks are built about the same, then somebody 'thinned down' the Black Fire neck by a bit more than an 1/8th of an inch!
Not trying to start a big debate, but it sounds like a reason to part it out to me. The eBay buyer has fair notice about the Neck Mod and the great majority of people who don't want a skinnied-down neck don't have to worry about it.
drc
Senior Member
thanks Gilded.. I am getting old, I totally missed that. Sounds like a good reason to me as well.
No one asked my opinion, but what the heck I'll join the party. The owner of any guitar can absolutely do as they please, but an option might have been to offer it up on LTG, noting the neck issue, or even offer it up on eBay noting the neck issue. At least give keeping it intact a try.
i.e., the neck mod may be a "reason" to sell it, but to part it out? I don't see the leap in logic there. It's a personal thing, and everyone can feel any way they want to about it, but some of us hate to see such a cool vintage guitar "destroyed".
I originally posted how nice the guitar was, and what a great score. But I'm with Walter ("not cool") and Toni ("it makes me sad").
walrus
i.e., the neck mod may be a "reason" to sell it, but to part it out? I don't see the leap in logic there. It's a personal thing, and everyone can feel any way they want to about it, but some of us hate to see such a cool vintage guitar "destroyed".
I originally posted how nice the guitar was, and what a great score. But I'm with Walter ("not cool") and Toni ("it makes me sad").
walrus
Consider the vintage Guild guitars that will now be complete, or closer to complete, using the parts salvaged from this guitar. Including a LTG member who just bought one of the parts.
I was really disappointed to learn of the neck modification, and did not want to deal with selling the guitar as a whole... and the possible expectations from the buyer that would entail. Vintage guitars with "issues" get parted out all the time, it's very common. They are often worth more in parts than as a whole, which is probably the case with this one here.
I was really disappointed to learn of the neck modification, and did not want to deal with selling the guitar as a whole... and the possible expectations from the buyer that would entail. Vintage guitars with "issues" get parted out all the time, it's very common. They are often worth more in parts than as a whole, which is probably the case with this one here.
In 40 years of playing, I've never run across a weird mod like a 'Neck-Slim' job! Accordingly, I think it's a huge reason to part it out. And, for what it's worth, the 'not cool' and 'makes me sad' opinions were presumably made before any of us knew that the guitar had significant troubles.
Further, I've never had much luck selling anything here at LTG in less than perfect condition, much less damaged goods. Why delay the inevitable and ask your LTG friends to buy a mangled guitar? I think he's to be congratulated for 'not' offering us the guitar! Friends don't let friends buy junk!
I don't know how much Valcotone bought the guitar for, but I bet that the only way to recoup the investment without duping another buyer is to part it out. Is that regrettable? Yes, but no more regrettable an action than that of the long ago owner who had the Neck Slimmed Down. The die was cast long before Valcotone bought this guitar.
Now can we go back to talking about the Factory Shut-Down?
Further, I've never had much luck selling anything here at LTG in less than perfect condition, much less damaged goods. Why delay the inevitable and ask your LTG friends to buy a mangled guitar? I think he's to be congratulated for 'not' offering us the guitar! Friends don't let friends buy junk!
I don't know how much Valcotone bought the guitar for, but I bet that the only way to recoup the investment without duping another buyer is to part it out. Is that regrettable? Yes, but no more regrettable an action than that of the long ago owner who had the Neck Slimmed Down. The die was cast long before Valcotone bought this guitar.
Now can we go back to talking about the Factory Shut-Down?
mavuser
Enlightened Member
Just to voice my neutral opinion, which is support for valcotone, cut him a little slack...seems like a serious Guild guy, found himself in a lose-lose situation, at least that hardware can go into an old Guild that may be otherwise mint, but had a blown pickup or toasted tuners. Those pickups are rare he may have really helped someone out. Valco does not appear to be a "flipper" or high volume "parter-outer." Of course anyone that is either of those things is free to be...but I don't get this vibe from Valcotone. I'm not familiar with the subject neck shaving but would think the instrument as a whole would have very little "vintage value" to anyone, as compared to an unmodified one.
Also Valco could have kept his mouth shut and unloaded it to an unknowing buyer, trying to recoup his investment. That buyer could have at any point long term or short re-sold the guitar, possibly even to one of us....by parting out the guitar Valco has essentially made the aforementioned scenario impossible. Someone would have to go to great lengths now to represent it as original. He has also publicly advertised and explained the shaved neck with the serial number. I think he has done this community more good than bad in this case. Put yourself in his shoes, the damage was done long ago, he is cleaning up the mess now. Sorry it didn't work out Valco.
Also Valco could have kept his mouth shut and unloaded it to an unknowing buyer, trying to recoup his investment. That buyer could have at any point long term or short re-sold the guitar, possibly even to one of us....by parting out the guitar Valco has essentially made the aforementioned scenario impossible. Someone would have to go to great lengths now to represent it as original. He has also publicly advertised and explained the shaved neck with the serial number. I think he has done this community more good than bad in this case. Put yourself in his shoes, the damage was done long ago, he is cleaning up the mess now. Sorry it didn't work out Valco.
drc
Senior Member
Well said Mavuser! and enough already about the factory shut down! LOL