Ovation guitars

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Seeing that Guitardude has a Glen Campbell model Ovation, I thought I'd bring-up the following.

Is there going to be any connection between Ovation and Guild at Fender's Kaman/Ovation/Hamer/Guild plant in New Hartford, Connecticut?

Ovations are interesting because they developed a practical way to make the old bowl-back design of mandolins and ouds.

Ovation's success story is due in part to Glen Campbell because he was among the first stars to play them. Glen is a great player. He was the foremost session player in Los Angeles before he hit it big.

Al Di Meola is another great Ovation player.
 

Beal

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What do you mean connection?

They're in the same factory with some of the same people, but they are separate production lines.
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Beal,

I forgot to ask if it's still their policy to keep only Guild workers making the Guilds--no finishing done by Ovation workers, etc.

hf
 

Ian

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Oooh, oooh oooh, that's me !! (hops around from one leg to the other). You mean like this ....







Sorry I'm late, took a while to upload the photo's....
 

Ian

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Ok, what did I do wrong ?

Hi Beal, good to see you're back. Do you have much involvement with the factory now ?

Cheers, Ian
 

dklsplace

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guitardude said:
Ok, what did I do wrong ?

Here ya go. You only need the actual image address inside the quotes after the img src= tag.

OvationHeadstock.jpg


Ovationcloseup.jpg


Ovation.jpg
 

chazmo

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Darryl, I hope we can answer that question soon, directly, with a factory tour. I'd certainly put that on a list of questions.

My guess is that there's been some re-tasking of employees that used to work on Ovation or Hamers, but that day-to-day I would imagine the cast of characters spends all its time on Guild (and not floating from one brand to the next). That's complete guesswork.
 

dklsplace

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On the supply side, I can tell you that Kaman has no involvement in distribution for the Guild line. That's handled directly through Fender.
 

Beal

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Guild hs their own spray booth and a dedicated work force as does Hamer and Ovation. Now when the need arises people can switch from one to the other if they are capable of doing it.
The detail shop, raw wood shop, is all together. When they get to sub assembly they split off to separate lines.
I have no involvement with the factory other than an ocasional visit to see friends, been gone for ten years now.
If there is a factory tour be sure to make it, what they are donig is really special.
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

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Thanks folks.

That old Campbell model looks near mint. It brings back good memories of old Glen. He was the first guy I saw playing a 12-string, and he was doing bluegrass flatpick bass runs with fingerpicking added. Tiny Moore, the great mando player, said Glen could play all of Tiny's work note for note on the guitar. There aren't many mando players who can play Tiny's work on a mando.

It just occurs to me that it might be good if workers at the Kaman plant work across company lines. Workers on one brand can learn from the workers from the other brands. In the old days, Guild hired guys from other companies.
 

killdeer43

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Only a slight veer here, but anytime I hear about or see an Ovation guitar, it takes me back to the early 70s when I owned one. I had big (?) plans to take my Ovation and my Gibson RB-170 and head for Europe to become....a folk singer! :roll:

It's probably obvious that I didn't, but it's fun to reminisce about those early aspirations.

And now, back to your regular scheduled thread.... :wink:

Joe
 

JerryR

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killdeer43 said:
Only a slight veer here, but anytime I hear about or see an Ovation guitar, it takes me back to the early 70s when I owned one. I had big (?) plans to take my Ovation and my Gibson RB-170 and head for Europe to become....a folk singer! :roll:

It's probably obvious that I didn't, but it's fun to reminisce about those early aspirations.

And now, back to your regular scheduled thread.... :wink:

Joe


Didn't seem to do Robert Zimmerman and Paul Simon any harm :wink:
 

Ian

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Thats better !! Thanks for sorting that out for me Don.

Anyone got any suggestions as to why the bracing is shadowing on the top ? (you can see it on the last photo). My friend first noticed this a couple of months ago, I've never seen this before.

Thanks for your comments Darryl, it's not mint by any means, a few small dings and some crazing on the top. Real nice condition for a guitar from 1974 though !! Probably because it's still got the original 70's chic orange velour lined case. Very much a 70's icon I think.
 

jte

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The Ovation bowl-back wasn't intentionally designed after the bowl-back mandolins, etc. Ovation's got a really interesting (well, to me...) history. Charlie Kaman was an excellent guitarist as well as an engineer. I remember reading an interveiw where he talked at length about guitars. He had an offer to go on the road with major band (not The Dorsey Bros., but someone of that stature, I don't recall who). But he turned them down because he was so close to finishing his degree in engineering. He wound up working for Sikorski, and moved on to start his own company after he was told "We don't need any new innovations, we've already got Igor Sikorski here". One of the problems he was working on was how to dampen the vibrations in the rotor blades while keeping the weight down. That's what they used the fiberglass for.

Meantime, he's still a guitarist, just loves the instrument. Being an engineer he decided to see how to shape the back of the guitar to best focus the sound, and that's the parabolic shape they came up with. It's engineered to really focus things together and eliminate canceled frequencies. He made a prototype with a wood back, but at the time he'd have to retail it at $1000. That was when the MSRP on a Martin D-45 was like $500, so he figured there wasn't a chance of selling it. While he and one of his engineers were talking about different ways to do it, someone else who wasn't a musician said "why not use that glass we wrap the rotor blades in?" Charlie and the other guy (who I think was a violinist) said "You can't make a guitar out of fiberglass!" but the third person said "Why not? You're trying control vibrations which is exactly what we do here in our rotor research."

So they built some of them, and sold one to Josh White, and then got a chance to get one to Glen Campbell. Campbell was just starting to be known outside of the studio scene and his manager started talking about needing royalties, etc. etc. Glen looked at the manager and said "Pay the man. I want THIS guitar.". At the time I got out of retail, Glen Campbell was the only endorser who ever got a free guitar from Ovation*. It was a gift from Charlie for Glen's undying support for 20 years or more.

John

*When I was a dealer, Ovation's endorsement deal was that every endorser got to buy two guitars a year at dealer net cost. The real benefit was great support. If an artist on tour had a problem with an Ovation, they merely contacted Ovation. Then Kaman Corp. would contact dealers in the area to get the artists something that was the same or very similar to their guitar. Then Ovation would arrange for the dealer to get the guitar to the artist, pick up the artist's problem guitar, and return it to Ovation. Meantime, Ovation would send a replacement out to restock the dealer, and give them some money for the work. That way the artist only had one phone call to make, the dealer got taken care of by Ovation, and every one was happy.

jte
 

GardMan

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guitardude said:
Anyone got any suggestions as to why the bracing is shadowing on the top ? (you can see it on the last photo). My friend first noticed this a couple of months ago, I've never seen this before.
Something about the bracing underneath might be affecting/retarding the color change that comes with the aging of the spruce top? Perhaps a chemical effect of the glue retarding oxidation? Or just the physical effect of having the braces there affecting access of humidity or oxygen from the in (unfinished) side of the top? Just guessing...
 

marcellis

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Back in 1988, I wanted to buy a Guild Songbird. I was also considering an Ovation.
I called Mandolin Brothers to order. I asked a lot of questions. I wanted a stage
acoustic guitar that could also give me decent acoustic tone in recording.
I was doing a one-man band thing back then. Sometimes, I'd need an electric
fuzz tone for lead. Sometimes, I'd need to be finger-picking acoustic songs.
I really loved the look of the Guild Songbird. And I already owned a D25
that I loved.

The salesman told me that the Songbird had very few acoustic qualities.
And that I would be seriously disappointed if I wanted to use it unplugged.
He tried to sell me a Taylor. I'd never heard of that brand. But he raved
about it.

Anyway, I bought a black Ovation Elite (US Made). It was a truly great guitar
over the years. People rag about the acoustic tone. And Ovations do have a
rubbery low-end. But I also think they also have a unique tone. I think the Ovation
tone occupies that border area between an arch top and a flat-top.
I always thought my Ovation sounded like an arch top on steroids.
Plus, I could plug it into a fuzz box and blast away.

I played an Elite LX a year or so ago in GC.
I was disappointed. It's not the guitar my 1988 Elite is.

****

Now that I think about it, back in 1973, I had just gotten home from
two tours in Vietnam. I went shopping for an Ovation like Glen Campbell played.
Then I saw this little red guitar by an off-brand company I'd never heard of, "Guild".
It was hanging on the wall. I brought that little red guitar home with me.

So once, I went shopping for an Ovation and bought home a Guild.
And once, I went shopping for a Guild and brought home an Ovation.
 

Beal

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jte
nice story but for a few little things.
1. It was the Tommy Dorsey band
2. Ovation never made a round wood back. The first bodies made were squarebacked but they needed internal bracing, just like a wood box, so the rounded self-reinforcing back was born
3. Martin wasn't making a D-45 in 66 when Ovation started, the top of the line was D-28 and CHK went to Manny's and bought one to use as the comparison standard. It's only a B+ guitar. It retailed for $369 back then which is what the Delux Balladeer was set at as well.
4. The first guitar was shown to Charlie Byrd. He said nice but I play nylon. Go across town and see Josh. He did, Josh liked the guitar but needed a wide neck so that took a few months to build. I think Josh got them for exchange of his endorsement and advertising and appearences.
5. Glen didn't come along till 69. He loved the guitar and they worked out an endorsement deal just in time for the TV show. Glen alwayse got his guitars gratis. Glen always bought the guitars his band used or the extras on the show. The call would come in and they'd say "These two are for Glen and the other 4 are for xyz so bill us for them." They were very honest about it.
6. through out Ovation's Sunshine years the deal was if you sign an endorsement and Ovation could use your image in ads yu got a guitar, ONE guitar. Others you could buy at basically dealer cost. That worked pretty well untill Ibanez messed it all up buying Steve Vai, and then every endoress was for sale.
 
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