Problem with my guitar (something's loose) NEW PICS!!!

[Ridgemont]

Hi all,

Recently, I have been having some issues with my GAD 30. At first I thought it was just muddy strings that needed a change, but the underlying problem still persisted and I have narrowed it down.

There is something loose in the guitar. There is a distinct rattling sound in the guitar when both the A and G strings are plucked with my fingers only. The sound from a pick does not produce this rattling, and this is not the sound from fret buzz. It is especially pronounced when the string is plucked at the midpoint (about the 14th fret). I changed the strings and made sure the ball end of each string was secured by the pin (I stuck my hand in the guitar to make sure it was secured). The rattling is still there. I guess it could be a loose endpin (which I will check when I go home), but I would guess that it would rattle with every string (especially the low E). If I hold the guitar and play it the rattling sound is reduced. If I place my hand on the bridge and pluck the strings, the rattling is also reduced and sometimes eliminated. To me, is sounds like plastic, but I guess I wouldn't rule out a loose brace.

One possibility is that while the ball of the string is in place, the bridge pin may not be providing enough contact to keep it from rattling inside the guitar.

Any thoughts?

 

[cjd-player]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

Ridge, does that have a D-Tar or other electronics?

I'm thinking of a wire rattling against something.


Also, check for something loose at the tuners.

 

[dreadnut]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

Did you buy it new and is it under warranty?

 

[Ridgemont]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

Thanks for the quick responses.

No electronics. Yes, bought it new (lifetime warranty) and thinking of having the dealer's tech check it out. I would love to figure it out myself and not have to send it in for who knows how long, but it may not be that easy.

 

[GardMan]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

Here's a couple links to "buzz diagnosis" from Frank Ford (Frets.com):

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenMaint/LooseBits/loosebit01.html

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Setup/BuzzDiagnosis/buzzintro.html

Are you saying it doesn't sound like fret buzz, or that it's not because of the pick vs plucked? In some cases, plucking could induce more up/down vibration, which would then be more prone to causing fret buzz. You might check your neck relief (capo at 1st fret, hold down at 14th fret... there should be space (a hair) between the strings and the 7th fret).

I have had buzzes from loose tuning machine ferrules, tag ends of strings, back buzz behind my capo, my clip on digital tuner, seasonal change in neck geometry and fret buzz, etc. It can be frustrating figuring it out. Good luck!
Dave

 

[plaidseason]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

This stuff will drive you crazy.

Definitely check the ball end of the string. A cheap mini-mirror is worth it for these sorts of things.

Check to see if a tuning button is loose

-Chris

 

[Ridgemont]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

Are you saying it doesn't sound like fret buzz, or that it's not because of the pick vs plucked? In some cases, plucking could induce more up/down vibration, which would then be more prone to causing fret buzz.

Hey Dave, thanks for the links. They seem helpful and I will go through the checklist tonight. I say it is not fret buzz because fret buzz has a distinct metal on metal sound. Almost tinny. This is a dull rattling that I can hear inside the guitar. I called the shop where I bought it, and they said to take it in so they can look at it. Looks like I will leave work early today.

 

[adorshki]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

HI Ridgemont, so sorry to hear, especially since I had wanted to tell you that I could understand your wanting to "play this guitar in" when you were talking about Big Bill Broonzy and I told you "play it on your D25". I was only half-joking, but on re-think, I think your GAD30 desrves the playing time just to help its tone develop. PLus it's got new frets compared to the D25 and I KNOW how much fun that is. I can't add anything that isn't already posted, just hope it turns out to be simple! Just occurred to me, is this happening when guitar is fully strung and up to pitch? If not, that tuning button tip is a very good candidate. I've also had minor buzz issues which disappear when guitar is up to pitch. Surprising.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

The problem could also be a loose truss rod.
It can be hard to find a sound like this because the sound will travel throughout the guitar.
You may have to have a Tech find and fix it for you.
Good thing you have the warranty.

 

[West R Lee]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

Thanks for the quick responses.

No electronics. Yes, bought it new (lifetime warranty) and thinking of having the dealer's tech check it out. I would love to figure it out myself and not have to send it in for who knows how long, but it may not be that easy.

I had a similar situation with me DV72 a while back.................loose tuning key .

West

 

[Ridgemont]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

Hey all,

Here is a quick update. I took the GAD 30 to the dealer, and guess what? Nothing. Not a single buzz or rattle. It sounded rather good (the way it should). I had earthwood lights on it (11-50) which felt like bungee chords. I went home and played it a while. Then all of a sudden, the rattling came back. I took off the strings, checked the tuners, end pin, bridge, and inspected the braces. Everything seemed to be in place. I put on a set of EXP lights and the rattling was there. I let the strings settle for about 10 minutes, retuned the guitar and the sound was gone. But for how long.....

It seems that the rattling is not constant and only responds to certain frequencies. The A sting sometimes sets it of as well as the G string and a G played on the D string. When the rattling occurs, I feel a strong vibration on the back of the guitar. Keep in mind that this only happens when I use my fingers. If I were only a flat picker then I wouldn't care since it sounds perfect when picked and strummed. Most of the songs I play are fingerstyle, so it becomes quite a nuisance.

 

[jcwu]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

Did you check to see if your phone is on vibrate? Maybe someone's trying to call you...

(Sorry, just had to throw that in there..)

 

[GardMan]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

Ridgemont...
Here's another one that had me stymied for a while (jcwu's post remined me of it). Last winter I was getting a buzz or rattle from my guitars sometimes. Was driving me crazy. Only when fingerpicking, and only intermittantly. It seemed to come from the body or bridge... but never when I was methodically trying to track it down.

One day it hit me... I was wearing long sleeves, and it was the snaps on the cuffs of my right (picking) arm (I wear western shirts with snap cuffs) vibrating against the body of the guitar! :lol: (hit head with palm of hand) Often, I don't snap the cuff snaps (I don't like my wrists constrained), and the cuffs would lie against the guitar body. When the guitar top vibrates, the snaps would buzz against it. When I strum, I keep my arm farther away... so no rattle. I traced other occurances to the snaps on the body of my shirt buzzing against the back of the guitar, so even short sleeves can do it.

Now, when recording I wear a sweat or t-shirt... no snaps, no rattle!

Good luck in tracking it down!
Dave

 

[jcwu]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

On a more serious note, I often get buzzing with some of my guitars. Turns out it's the strap lock rattling, since the strap's not at full tension when I'm sitting down playing.

 

[adorshki]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

Did you see that one about the truss rod nut on frets.com? Also that issue of being consistent with A and G freqs is very telling, something is vibrating in that freq range. Since you feel it on the back I'd go look VERY closely at the back bracing. Also is your dealer actually knowledgable about construction and diagnosis? NO dishonor but many of them actually aren't. Sounds like you would benefit to find a Guild (Fender) authorized Luthier. Could probably diagnose it at the counter, fix it under warranty. Eventually you'll want to know who to talk to about other stuff anyway. If you haven't registered it yet, do it right away. Besides warranty, it'll also help verify ownership if it's ever stolen and recovered.
A last thought, is it possible there's something in your technique that's causing the strings to hit the frets under certain conditions, especially since it seems to happen only when fingerpicking? Maybe some of that new Broonzy stuff you're working on?
Good luck!

 

[Ridgemont]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

What I would give to have it just be a shirt button!!!!! And I wouldn't mind if it were my technique. As for a loose brace (a more dreaded fear), the shop told me yesterday that if it were, you would be able to hear it when you shake the guitar. I was relieved to hear that, but then I started to question that simple diagnosis....what do you think?

 

[adorshki]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

HI, hate to say it and I'm not a luthier but I DON't think simple shaking is going to reveal a rattle that only shows up at certain frequncies. Visualize perhaps the loose end of a brace needing a certain resonance and amplitude before it flaps aginst the back or side or top. It might even look good under the best inspection techniques we have at home. Definitely go to Frets.com and go into his section on diagnosing buzzes and rattles. It's all stuff you can do yourself. Another idea: If the back is damped against a pillow or your stomach, can you make it rattle? That might help verify whether the back is involved. Similar issue for the top and even sides. Double check not just the tuning buttons but the tightness of the collars the pegheads come thru, especially the a and g.
I joined this forum 'cause I thought I might have ideas like this to offer for other folks, glad to try to help, wish I could do more.
Hey at least you've got a back up even if does need a little warranty work! :mrgreen:

 

[Ridgemont]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

I DON't think simple shaking is going to reveal a rattle that only shows up at certain frequncies. Visualize perhaps the loose end of a brace needing a certain resonance and amplitude before it flaps aginst the back or side or top.

I agree! That is what made me skeptical. What I need to to is be able to reproduce the vibration and take it to an experienced tech. If it then needs repair or the problem can't be identified, then send it to Guild.

 

[Paddlefoot]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

I'm with adorski on this one. I think you have a truss rod buzz. That always seems to be a frequency sensitive sort of noise. You mentioned several different sets of strings; Did this repairman check the truss rod to see if it functions or is even doing anything? I have heard of truss rods buzzing because they weren't even tight enough to keep the washer behind the nut from rattling. Also you mentioned that it changes or goes away when you hold the guitar in playing position. That tends to make me think truss rod because they can shift around if not adjusted properly or have gotten damaged. You need a real repairman.

 

[bluesypicky]

Re: Problem with my guitar (something's loose)

I think you were correct in your first impression.... IMO the issue rests on the bridge, which is the most conductive point of contact to your soundboard.
How is the action set currently? When set too low, you might get in the trouble of losing too much angle on the string(s) where they go down to the pin.
Also, if you haven't done it yet, remove the saddle and clean the slot really good inside to ensure you have a very even contact between the saddle and the bottom of the bridge....
I know how ennoying these issues can get, so good luck!