S4 Vs Songbird

[grmps]

So, the S4 is waaaay heavier than than the songbird. I just got a Songbird delivered today, and the first thing I noticed about it was the weight.
The S4 is a very heavy guitar, and the Songbird is quite light by comparison.
The Songbird is a 1992 NT
and the S4 is a 1993 NT
but yeah the weight has got to be a 1-2 pound difference.I plan on having my tech look at it later today, but yeah Wondered if anyone else noticed the difference in weight.

 

[adorshki]

So, the S4 is waaaay heavier than than the songbird. I just got a Songbird delivered today, and the first thing I noticed about it was the weight.
The S4 is a very heavy guitar, and the Songbird is quite light by comparison.
The Songbird is a 1992 NT
and the S4 is a 1993 NT
but yeah the weight has got to be a 1-2 pound difference.I plan on having my tech look at it later today, but yeah Wondered if anyone else noticed the difference in weight.

They got thicker when they went from the earlier Fishman AG system (2 knobs) to the Prefix system (sliders on a "barn door"), which required making the sides a little deeper, could that be the difference?

Otherwise they're supposed to be the same, varying in cosmetics only.

 

[grmps]

They got thicker when they went from the earlier Fishman AG system (2 knobs) to the Prefix system (sliders on a "barn door"), which required making the sides a little deeper, could that be the difference?

Otherwise they're supposed to be the same, varying in cosmetics only.

Well the songbird I have doesn't have the barn door. it's 92. the S4 is a '93 and it feels like it's got a thick block of wood down at the bottom of the guitar. The songbird definitely feels light like it may be different wood or something. I like em both but I probably won't get to play it much for a while. The songbird is at my tech's getting a the first 7 frets replaced and a recrown on the rest as well as bone nut and saddle. He's about a month out. no biggee I have the S4 in the meantime.

 

[Dadzmad]

I never thought of my S4 as a heavy guitar (compared to my ash tele). There is a thread on this board from back in 2009 where a poster who went by "workedinwesterly" related that the Songbirds had a chunk of lead attached to the tailblock area for balance. I don't know for sure if my "heavier" later model S4 has this - but she is still a neck diver without a wide woven cotton strap. Thanks for bringing up the topic and getting me in the frame of mind to undo all the latches and pull her out for the evening.

 

[cupric]

Songbirds are great!!!

 

[adorshki]

I never thought of my S4 as a heavy guitar (compared to my ash tele). There is a thread on this board from back in 2009 where a poster who went by "workedinwesterly" related that the Songbirds had a chunk of lead attached to the tailblock area for balance. I don't know for sure if my "heavier" later model S4 has this - but she is still a neck diver without a wide woven cotton strap. Thanks for bringing up the topic and getting me in the frame of mind to undo all the latches and pull her out for the evening.

By golly I'd forgotten all about that, but it does ring the bell.

Well the songbird I have doesn't have the barn door. it's 92. the S4 is a '93 and it feels like it's got a thick block of wood down at the bottom of the guitar. The songbird definitely feels light like it may be different wood or something.

No, they're all 'hog but the lead weight makes sense, now. But don't think only S4ce's got 'em, note Dadzmad said "Songbirds" assuming it's an accurate recollection and not a casual usage.

 

[grmps]

Yeah, the S4 isn't heavy, but for an acoustic it is definitely very heavy, and the songbird is just... light. Probably as light as that F4 I played at Norms a while back. The S4 almost feels like a solid body electric, while the songbird feels like a matchstick... Maybe someone took the "chunk of lead" for balance out of the tailblock? Is that possible?

 

[grmps]

I just checked out a 92 songbird on reverb and the knobs aren't orange... So I'll have to keep a look out for some knobs...
They look just like the knobs on my S4.

 

[Nuuska]

No visible lead chunks anywhere.

 

[adorshki]

No visible lead chunks anywhere.

I think yours might be too early, both pre '92, right?

'92 or earlier, right?Yeah, the S4 isn't heavy, but for an acoustic it is definitely very heavy, and the songbird is just... light. Probably as light as that F4 I played at Norms a while back. The S4 almost feels like a solid body electric, while the songbird feels like a matchstick... Maybe someone took the "chunk of lead" for balance out of the tailblock? Is that possible?

OK, guessing they may have changed the thickness of the "walls" of he finished bodies. Those bodies were all routed from solid chunks of 'hog, they're "one piece" with a separate neck and top, so making sides and back thicker or thinner would obviously affect weight.

And that doesn't rule out use of lead, either. I'm positive WorkedinWesterly's report was accurate, but the "when" is also almost always relevant with Guild.

 

[Nuuska]

Right you are Adorshki - my both are 1990

 

[adorshki]

Right you are Adorshki - my both are 1990

Just happened to remember the acquisition stories, and being able to find the unusual finish colors applied to "Songbird Custom", but couldn't recall what price list I saw 'em on.

 

[grmps]

So My unicorn came in today. Black 1993 songbird with shoulder knobs. YaY me.
And It's heavy!! so my 1993 S4 is heavy my 93 songbird is heavy but the 92 songbird is light as a feather... Is it just difference in production between the years?
Also my 93 songbird doesn't have a back door... anywhere...

 

[adorshki]

So My unicorn came in today. Black 1993 songbird with shoulder knobs. YaY me.
And It's heavy!! so my 1993 S4 is heavy my 93 songbird is heavy but the 92 songbird is light as a feather... Is it just difference in production between the years?

Only logical explanation, something different in the builds, the lead weight and possible differences in chamber size/wall thickness being the most likely sources.

Also my 93 songbird doesn't have a back door... anywhere...

Am guessing that the relocation of the knobs allowed 'em to "delete" the access panel, must be easier to get at the circuit board in that location, if needed?

Also just realized that moving the knobs from waist to shoulder may have contributed to neck dive and been the reason to start adding the lead in the tail.

 

[grmps]

Sooo, I went searching for what gauge string Songbirds came with and I can't find it anywhere.
Also, should one string their songbird with electric strings or acoustic strings?

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

It has a transducer, not a mag pickup...hence, acoustic strings are appropriate...the preamp/ust will be voiced for acoustic.

It's short scale so use what you are comfortable with...lights, custom lights,11's, all work fine.

RE: no back door...you get to access your battery thru the soundhole.

 

[grmps]

It has a transducer, not a mag pickup...hence, acoustic strings are appropriate...the preamp/ust will be voiced for acoustic.

It's short scale so use what you are comfortable with...lights, custom lights,11's, all work fine.

RE: no back door...you get to access your battery thru the soundhole.

Thank you…
Just out of curiosity, would you happen to know what string gauge they came standard with?

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

Most likely lights...moot point, anyway...string composition/tensions/materials have changed drastically over the last 30 years.
Use what you like.
Just don't go heavy enough to kill it.
It was meant to be amplified...obsessing over strings won't make that much of an acoustic difference.
Just play it and enjoy it.

 

[grmps]

Most likely lights...moot point, anyway...string composition/tensions/materials have changed drastically over the last 30 years.
Use what you like.
Just don't go heavy enough to kill it.
It was meant to be amplified...obsessing over strings won't make that much of an acoustic difference.
Just play it and enjoy it.

I was gonna try to keep it to original specs… the guy who sold it to me seems to have have 9s or lighter on it and theyre definitely electric strings… Ive been putting 12s on my acoustics… you think thats too heavy?

 

[mavuser]

11's