Seeking advice on whether / how to fix cracked F112 neck

[Ncrews]

The neck on my '70s-era F112 has a crack along the backside (see below). The crack is totally closed; in fact, I'd think it was just a finish blemish, probably, if I didn't know the issue is fairly common on Guild 12 strings from over-tightening the truss rod(s). The crack runs from about the first to the fifth fret.

My questions: should I get this fixed (and, if so, how and how much would such a repair cost) or live with it (as I have for the 10 years I've had the guitar?) Fortunately the guitar plays well and has a good set-up and I haven't had to adjust the truss rod (if indeed it's even adjustable.)

And when it comes to fixing the neck, can you really get glue into a crack (if that's the solution) that's so tightly closed? I assume you'd have to remove the fingerboard to make the repair, right?

I do need a fret job, but I don't want to put that kind of money into a guitar that has what might be a chronic or un-fixable problem. Other than the crack and whatever truss rod issues a close look might reveal, the guitar is in good condition.

Suggestions, anyone?

Thanks....



.

 

[Default]

Water thin ca glue and clamping is the way I would roll.

 

[RBSinTo]

Ncrews,
My first suggestion is to let a reputable Luthier repair the neck.
But if you are doing it yourself, I agree with Default's suggestion, except that I'd dilute Carpenter's Glue with water, and using an exacto knife blade to slightly open the crack, deposit the glue with a razor blade, and then clamp.
RBSinTo

 

[Br1ck]

I'd use CA glue, but have a luthier do it. Thin CA can run amok. It's a simple repair that whoever does the fret work can easily do. The truss rod might have been overtightened to address bigger neck issues, so have the whole neck evaluated by a pro.

 

[RBSinTo]

I'd use CA glue, but have a luthier do it. Thin CA can run amok. It's a simple repair that whoever does the fret work can easily do. The truss rod might have been overtightened to address bigger neck issues, so have the whole neck evaluated by a pro.

Br1ck,
If I was having a Luthier do the repair, I'd leave the choice of glue and procedure up to him/her.
I'd never presume to advise any professional on how to do their job.
RBSinTo

 

[kostask]

Do what you feel is right for you and your guitar, but there is a distinct possibility that the truss rod (or are there two on an F-112?) may also be broken. In my experience (not with Guilds in this case), truss rods often break far before the neck cracks. In that case, there will be an extensive amount of repair work required, which will require the services of a luthhier, as you are probably looking at peeling off the fingerboard to get the truss rod out, and a new one in, especially if it is an "anchored" truss rod. It could be a free truss rod, in which there is no anchor at the bottom of the truss rod (Harmony truss rods are often like that), making it slightly possible to extract the truss rod out of the truss rod hole, but I am pretty sure that the Guild truss rods are anchored.

Best thing to do is to have it checked out at a local luthier.

 

[wileypickett]

There are two truss rods in Guild 12s of this vintage, and the routing for the double channels leave the remaining wood thin and subject to cracking. (We've see this occur on numerous Guild 12-strings.) The problem with putting water-based glue into the crack is that it's difficult to clamp such a crack closed. Do you clamp it side to side?, back to front? -- maybe wrapping some kind of flexible band around the neck that can be ratcheted to tighten it?

But without successfully clamping the crack closed, water-based glue is worthless.

Your luthier might have more success with superglue. Once it's wicked into the crack, it can be cured instantly with GluBoost, and that might work. (I've done this succesfully on some cracks that can't otherwise be closed by clamping, but never on 12-string neck cracks.)

Whichever method your fix-it person chooses, they'd also need to do some finish work to tidy things up -- if that's important to you.

Our own Heath recently had such a crack repaired in one of his vintage 12-strings. He can explain it better than me, but my recollection is that the luthier took off the fingerboard, removed the two truss rods, repaired the crack from the inside, filled the double channels (I don't recall with what), routed out a single cavity in the center of the newly filled neck, and installed a single truss rod in place of the old double rods. By doing so he was able to beef up the thickness of the neck so that it's not likely to crack again.

I don't know what the repair ran him, but I know it wasn't cheap.

Anyone know how Fixit deals with this kind of repair? He must have seen quite a few in his day!

 

[Ncrews]

I want to thank everyone for taking the time for give me such great and informative input. I'm definitely of the "stewardship" school of guitar ownership: that is, I've always felt my first responsibility was to care for and maintain my guitars for future players, whoever they might be. When I was employed there would have been little question this guitar would've gone straight to a repair shop. Post-retirement, though, financial outlay of the kind it sounds this guitar might require becomes a bigger consideration. I'm starting to feel like an old man struggling to meet his responsibilities as far as his guitars are concerned.

In any case, thanks again of all the good input....I really appreciate it..

 

[RBSinTo]

I want to thank everyone for taking the time for give me such great and informative input. I'm definitely of the "stewardship" school of guitar ownership: that is, I've always felt my first responsibility was to care for and maintain my guitars for future players, whoever they might be. When I was employed there would have been little question this guitar would've gone straight to a repair shop. Post-retirement, though, financial outlay of the kind it sounds this guitar might require becomes a bigger consideration. I'm starting to feel like an old man struggling to meet his responsibilities as far as his guitars are concerned.

In any case, thanks again of all the good input....I really appreciate it..

Ncrews,
I agree with your philosophy, but my reasoning differs slightly in that by taking care and maintaining my guitars for me, when my wife has me cremated and scatters my ashes in the cats' litter boxes, whoever is lucky enough to find my instruments at the Good Will store, will discover them to be in excellent condition.
That however will simply be serendipity, rather than by design with them in mind.
RBSinTo

 

[Br1ck]

Br1ck,
If I was having a Luthier do the repair, I'd leave the choice of glue and procedure up to him/her.
I'd never presume to advise any professional on how to do their job.
RBSinTo

I was not presuming I'd contradict a pro, only that to stabilize a tight crack, thin CA works.

 

[adorshki]

I want to thank everyone for taking the time for give me such great and informative input. I'm definitely of the "stewardship" school of guitar ownership: that is, I've always felt my first responsibility was to care for and maintain my guitars for future players, whoever they might be. When I was employed there would have been little question this guitar would've gone straight to a repair shop. Post-retirement, though, financial outlay of the kind it sounds this guitar might require becomes a bigger consideration. I'm starting to feel like an old man struggling to meet his responsibilities as far as his guitars are concerned.

In any case, thanks again of all the good input....I really appreciate it..

WIleypickett nailed it.

It's a little more complicate because of the dual rods. BTW, if you DO proceed, (because I believe it's worth it given the paucity and lack of new equivalents to F-112's), be sure the luthier understands the role of th rods is to deal with unequal tension between treble and bass side of fretboard and they're not intended to be tightened "equally" as if they were one rod. That's been a suspected cause of at least a couple of cracks .

 

[Heath]

And another note from someone who is dealing with this issue currently, when the fingerboard came off it was discovered that the other channel was also developing a crack from the inside that just hadn't made it to the outside yet.

 

[12 string]

Red epoxy wicked in fixed mine, decades later and still holding. This issue has come up on the forum several times over the years.

' Strang

 

[West R Lee]

If one of you suggesting glue wouldn't mind explaining to a novice. How in the world do you get the glue into the crack, and wouldn't that destroy the neck finish? I've obviously never tried anything like that, or had a need to. It just conjures visions of a very unsightly neck.

West

 

[adorshki]

Red epoxy wicked in fixed mine, decades later and still holding. This issue has come up on the forum several times over the years.

' Strang

If anybody here has some 12-string experience it's you. Thanks.

 

[Br1ck]

Several ways to get glue into a crack. One is to use CA glue of the thinnest viscosity. It will wick into the thinnest crack, but will also go places you don't want it to. Then you can thin a glue like tight bond and work it in with a suction cup. There are probably many more tricks the pros know of. This won't add much if you are doing fret work or a neck reset.

 

[wileypickett]

Several ways to get glue into a crack. One is to use CA glue of the thinnest viscosity. It will wick into the thinnest crack, but will also go places you don't want it to. Then you can thin a glue like tight bond and work it in with a suction cup. There are probably many more tricks the pros know of. This won't add much if you are doing fret work or a neck reset.

Getting glue into the crack isn’t the problem. Clamping the crack closed is the problem.

 

[Heath]

Getting glue into the crack isn’t the problem. Clamping the crack closed is the problem.

And also the fact the other channel could be developing the same crack

 

[wileypickett]

If one of you suggesting glue wouldn't mind explaining to a novice. How in the world do you get the glue into the crack, and wouldn't that destroy the neck finish? I've obviously never tried anything like that, or had a need to. It just conjures visions of a very unsightly neck.

West

However you repair it, no matter what kind of glue you use, the neck will need cleaning up, possibly touching up if it’s a sunburst.

Even if you’re not concerned with appearance, it’ll at least need some relacquering to get it smooth again.

I played Heath’s before he took it in for a professional repair and you could really feel the crack as you played.

 

[Br1ck]

We are speculating as to the severity of the crack. Pics won't show us. As long as a pro is doing the reset, let the pro decide. If truss rod pressure is the issue, the neck can be straightened by sanding before new frets go in. Then you can achieve relief with less tightening. 12 strings add complexity to the issue.

But I have not heard a better guitar for Leo Kottke type playing, for an F 112 is a much clearer than it's bigger brothers. A fine and under rated twelve.