Starfire II Upgrades

[whowantstoeatanapkin]

Hello! I'm new to this particular forum but I've had an older Newark Street Starfire II for a while and it's my absolute favorite bass. It feels absolutely fantastic, but I'd love some more sonic flexibility, and a better bridge. I'm just now getting into the classic Alembicized Starfire players, Lesh and Casady and the like, but for years I've been enamored with the sounds of Alembic electronics and the whole aesthetic. I wonder what experience some of the bass players here have with upgrading their Starfires in such a way, and what the process is like. It would be a bit difficult for me to actually go to the Alembic factory since I'm all the way in New England, so I wonder if anyone's been able to order the parts and have them installed locally? Any information would be very helpful.

 

[mellowgerman]

Welcome!
A lot of times people will send their instrument to Alembic to have it Alembicized. Personally though, if I cared enough about a bass to drop that kind of dough on it, I would not be shipping it across the country. A friend of mine recently had a bass completely disappear in transit via UPS. He did get insurance on it so ultimately no monetary loss, but if you really love a bass, it's not really about the money.
If you want the exact Alembic sound, you'll want to get the pickups for sure, but you can save a lot of money by pairing them with JTEX Distiller resonant low pass filters (handmade in Canada out of top shelf components and functionally the same as Alembic filters). I have them in 2 basses, including my 1970 Starfire, and they are amazing.
I would even say it's worth pairing some JTEX electronics with your current pickups to start out. Might give you all the flexibility you're looking for and more. Just be sure to shield everything thoroughly.

 

[whowantstoeatanapkin]

Welcome!
A lot of times people will send their instrument to Alembic to have it Alembicized. Personally though, if I cared enough about a bass to drop that kind of dough on it, I would not be shipping it across the country. A friend of mine recently had a bass completely disappear in transit via UPS. He did get insurance on it so ultimately no monetary loss, but if you really love a bass, it's not really about the money.
If you want the exact Alembic sound, you'll want to get the pickups for sure, but you can save a lot of money by pairing them with JTEX Distiller resonant low pass filters (handmade in Canada out of top shelf components and functionally the same as Alembic filters). I have them in 2 basses, including my 1970 Starfire, and they are amazing.
I would even say it's worth pairing some JTEX electronics with your current pickups to start out. Might give you all the flexibility you're looking for and more. Just be sure to shield everything thoroughly.

Fascinating! Would a low pass filter like that pair well with the stock Bisonics? I don't know much about the output/ general specs of the pickups, but I do like their sound; very clear and defined which is very welcome on a semi-hollow bass.

 

[mellowgerman]

Yup! The JTEX Distiller filters in particular are designed to be compatible with just about any pickup, whether normal passive high impedance like your Bisonics or low impedance Alembics. There's a mini phillips-head adjuster pot on the back of the Distiller that lets you set the gain, based on whatever pickup you're using. Here's my 1970 Starfire, which has one Hammon Darkstar and one Novak BS/DS with each pickup running through it's own Distiller. Sounds amazing and she's insanely versatile.

 

[whowantstoeatanapkin]

Yup! The JTEX Distiller filters in particular are designed to be compatible with just about any pickup, whether normal passive high impedance like your Bisonics or low impedance Alembics. There's a mini phillips-head adjuster pot on the back of the Distiller that lets you set the gain, based on whatever pickup you're using. Here's my 1970 Starfire, which has one Hammon Darkstar and one Novak BS/DS with each pickup running through it's own Distiller. Sounds amazing and she's insanely versatile.

That looks great! Are the switches coil taps?

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome.

mellow is the local expert with practical experience with Alembic electronics. There are a couple other folks who have done something similar who might chime in.

The Novak BS/DS can have a coil tap to get both the vintage Bisonic specs and the Hammon DarkStar specs. I have one, with tap, in a solid body.

 

[mellowgerman]

That looks great! Are the switches coil taps?

The middle 3-position mini toggle allows me to dictate which pickup (bridge/both/neck) is impacted by the Stellartone Tone-styler rotary mid-notch control (the big black knob up front). This is a passive rotary vari-tone style control that is voiced specifically for bass and one of the more useful, impressive versions of a vari-tone currently available. This Tone-styler is the first thing the pickup signal sees, but there is a true bypass setting, which essentially removes it from the circuit when desired.

After this, each Distiller filter has a 3-position mini toggle switch that allows you to select between 3 different resonance boost settings: +0dB, +5dB, +9dB. At the first, +0dB setting, the filter essentially acts like the ultimate tone control, in that it's a perfectly smooth, gradual treble roll-off that maintains the tone of your pickups crystal clear. The other two settings create a resonant boost at whichever frequency the filter is set to, which is where the magic happens. Above that frequency is a clean cut-off, at that frequency there's your selected level of boost and below it is the otherwise unaffected remainder of your pickup signal. That's the easiest way I can describe it, but those boost levels (+5dB and +9dB) can completely change the voice of your pickup, making for seemingly infinite possibilities. Then when you blend the signals between two separate sets (of pickup+distiller) the signals are buffered and summed in a way that neither affects the other - unlike when a bass has 2 separate passive tone controls, they tend to affect each other unless you add a resistor in the circuit.
Anyway, Jerry (the man himself) can probably explain it better than I can:

JTEX Electronics - Distiller

Having owned several Alembic basses, I've always found their electronics to be truly special. Unlike most other basses using passive tone controls or conventional 2- or 3-band EQs, Alembic basses come equipped with a unique 12dB-per-octave low-pass filter that features a widely adjustable cutoff

www.jtex.ca

After the filters come the volume controls. Since the filter buffers the signal, you want something like a 25k potentiometer for your volume(s), which will allow you to have a perfectly smooth, gradual volume cut, all the way from 10 to 0. I went with the standard EMG 25k volume pot, per Jerry's recommendation.

 

[whowantstoeatanapkin]

The middle 3-position mini toggle allows me to dictate which pickup (bridge/both/neck) is impacted by the Stellartone Tone-styler rotary mid-notch control (the big black knob up front). This is a passive rotary vari-tone style control that is voiced specifically for bass and one of the more useful, impressive versions of a vari-tone currently available. This Tone-styler is the first thing the pickup signal sees, but there is a true bypass setting, which essentially removes it from the circuit when desired.

After this, each Distiller filter has a 3-position mini toggle switch that allows you to select between 3 different resonance boost settings: +0dB, +5dB, +9dB. At the first, +0dB setting, the filter essentially acts like the ultimate tone control, in that it's a perfectly smooth, gradual treble roll-off that maintains the tone of your pickups crystal clear. The other two settings create a resonant boost at whichever frequency the filter is set to, which is where the magic happens. Above that frequency is a clean cut-off, at that frequency there's your selected level of boost and below it is the otherwise unaffected remainder of your pickup signal. That's the easiest way I can describe it, but those boost levels (+5dB and +9dB) can completely change the voice of your pickup, making for seemingly infinite possibilities. Then when you blend the signals between two separate sets (of pickup+distiller) the signals are buffered and summed in a way that neither affects the other - unlike when a bass has 2 separate passive tone controls, they tend to affect each other unless you add a resistor in the circuit.
Anyway, Jerry (the man himself) can probably explain it better than I can:

JTEX Electronics - Distiller

Having owned several Alembic basses, I've always found their electronics to be truly special. Unlike most other basses using passive tone controls or conventional 2- or 3-band EQs, Alembic basses come equipped with a unique 12dB-per-octave low-pass filter that features a widely adjustable cutoff

www.jtex.ca

After the filters come the volume controls. Since the filter buffers the signal, you want something like a 25k potentiometer for your volume(s), which will allow you to have a perfectly smooth, gradual volume cut, all the way from 10 to 0. I went with the standard EMG 25k volume pot, per Jerry's recommendation.

I feel like that's just complex enough for my liking. I've heard about those Stellartone circuits-- if I had a passive P-Bass it'd probably go right in there.
Did you do the work yourself or have it done by a tech? And what kinda strings are on there? I only ask because I find my Labella's a little too dark for my taste despite how great they feel.

 

[mellowgerman]

I feel like that's just complex enough for my liking. I've heard about those Stellartone circuits-- if I had a passive P-Bass it'd probably go right in there.
Did you do the work yourself or have it done by a tech? And what kinda strings are on there? I only ask because I find my Labella's a little too dark for my taste despite how great they feel.

The Stellartone is fantastic in it's own right and a great option for anyone who wants more variety out of their bass but doesn't want to get quite as complicated as adding an active circuit. They hook up pretty much just like a passive tone control does, so it's a much easier swap.

As for strings, I use NOS Maxima flatwounds from the early 70's (for which I was fortunate enough to find a bulk source), but if you feel the Labellas are a little dark for your liking, you probably wouldn't be a fan of the thumpy E string the Maximas have. The A, D, and G are a little more lively and have pretty amazing open and airy mids thanks to the bell metal core and nickel windings.
Anyway, if you want something brighter than the Labellas I would recommend trying a set of D'Addario Black Nylon Tapewounds. They're another favorite string of mine and are my go-to choice for my Gibson. They have the sustain of roundwounds, a wonderful smooth satin feel to them, and they're somewhere between typical flats and typical nickel rounds in terms of brightness. A runner-up would be GHS Pressurewounds, which are nickel roundwounds that they literally put under pressure to get the outer winding compressed to a more oval shape. The result is a smoother (than roundwound) feeling string that has big fat punchy low mids like flatwounds, but again maintains more brightness and sustain than flats. Finally the Ernie Ball Cobalt flatwounds are a great choice if you definitely want to stick with flatwounds but just want them to be brighter.

Important to note, for D'Addario Black Nylon Tapewounds the "medium scale" set will fit a Starfire perfectly in terms of length. For GHS Pressurewounds, I'm honestly not sure if they offer them in short or medium scale, but I've always used the normal longscale set without issue. For Ernie Ball Cobalt flatwounds, I think the scale options are also limited, but the longscale ones seem to work fine when put on a Newark Street Starfire, even though the outer metal winding will start to go around the post, the post on the Newark Street basses is thicker in diameter so it puts less strain on the string than the skinnier vintage counterparts. There is at least one whole thread on Starfire-compatible string options and different LTGer's opinions/preferences if you do a little searching here in the bass section. We don't all agree, but we sure love discussing, learning, sharing, etc.

 

[lungimsam]

mellow is definitely the cat to chat with for supercharging your Starfire bass.

IMHO,
The best strings I have found that fit the Starfires ball end to silks are:
1. For Rounds-Daddario EXL170M medium scale or Ernie Ball Medium Scale 2856 Regular Slinkys. Both are great for bright Chris Squire like tone. Crazy bright. Gotta love the savage growl they have when played with a pic. Caveat: I still haven’t tried TI Jazz rounds.

2. For Flats: TI Jazz Flat short scale JF324. They are called short scale but fit Starfires perfectly. Sounds like Phil Tone in the Starfire days. Especially chords and high notes played with a pic. If you like the sound of the bass in the second verse of studio version Kate Bush’s “Kashka from Baghdad” it sounds just like that, too.

Cobalt flats are my favorite bright flats for Starfire bass but only available in long scale at this printing. I think they are the best sounding bright flats but I did have one break. I used Cobalts for about a year with no issues, but on a newer set, after about a month I slackened the low E and as I lifted it from the tuner it snapped. You could see that it was ready to break at any moment.
“Ernie” told me he will only make medium scale cobalts if there is a demand. If you and mellow email him that will make three demands.

My Starfires are all passive. I have a Tonestyler on one of them that is fun but I always find myself with it set to true bypass.

 

[whowantstoeatanapkin]

My Starfires are all passive. I have a Tonestyler on one of them that is fun but I always find myself with it set to true bypass.

I think just the idea of true bypass on a tone control is a cool idea.
Do you have one for each pickup or one controlling both?

 

[lungimsam]

I have two pickups. Three knobs. Master Volume/blend pot/Tonestyler. It is a red Starfire I that I added a neck pickup to. So the Tonestyler works on both pickups. Details here:

Making my Starfire I a Starfire II

First step- Measure a lot. The black bezel is a touch smaller on its inside hole than the factory hole cut for the bridge hole so using the bezel as a template since means less material will be removed but the pup will still fit. Oriented it like the neck PUP of the II and flipped it face down...

letstalkguild.com

But can take any standard tone pot and make it have a true bypass setting by filing ~1mm off the end of the carbon track. This is called converting a standard tone pot to “no load”, which is what I plan to do to the tone pots on my green Starfire II if I ever need to remove them.
I have done no load conversions on my Ric and Gibson basses and love the ability to have full brightness with no loading of the circuit other than the volume pot’s loading. It removes the tone circuit completely at the “10” position on the knob. When you roll back to “9” the wiper then engages the track and you have your normal tone pot functioning from “9” to the total closing of the pot on “0”. Or “E” like in the Starfire knobs.

Just for reference, my red Starfires three control harness is:
Harness:
CTS 1MG audio taper volume pot(CTS-EP-4988)/CTS 500k Blend pot (CTS-EP-6386)/Tonestyler Guitar 16
(Could also use a Bourns 500k blend pot PDB182-GTRB-2504)

 

[mellowgerman]

I'll plan to attempt a demo video showing how massive the Stellartone effect can be when combined with the resonant boost of the filters. It's super fun stuff.

 

[lungimsam]

That will be cool!!

 

[Happy Face]

Two of us here have installed Alembic pickups and filters. If you call them, they are making them for Guilds. A local luthier installed them so no need to ship the guitar to their factory.

Not sure if they would fit your NS bass so call them before you buy.

I'd imagine that the filters Mellow One recommended are more reasonably priced.

 

[RVBASS]

I had Alembic modify my Starfire bass. They did a beautiful job and it sounds fantastic, but they are a very small shop with production schedules and high demand for upgrades and repairs, so it can take a while for them to get to your bass and finish it once they start working on it (it took several years for the work on mine to be completed). That said, I love the sound of my Alembicized starfire. It might be quicker and less expensive to order the parts and have them installed locally.

You can order parts online when they are in stock at their online store. For instance, here is a link to their AXY pickups and harness, but they are currently out of stock.

AXY Activator Pickups

alembic.stores.yahoo.net

And as Happy Face mentioned they have made pickups shaped specifically to fit in bisonic routs recently. Hieronymus had those put in his Guild bass.

Note that like everyone, they are still trying to catch up from supply chain issues. You can give them a call and see when they think the parts might be available.

Also, there is a guy on ebay who makes the brass hardware similar to the Alembic parts.

Good luck with your project!

 

[James Hart]

Also, there is a guy on ebay who makes the brass hardware similar to the Alembic parts.

I'm planning on going that route this coming summer... this bridge and a brass nut https://www.ebay.com/itm/175430040042

I'll keep mine passive, it works well that way for me so far... currently loving TI Jazz Rounds on mine (2017 Import).

 

[whowantstoeatanapkin]

I had Alembic modify my Starfire bass. They did a beautiful job and it sounds fantastic, but they are a very small shop with production schedules and high demand for upgrades and repairs, so it can take a while for them to get to your bass and finish it once they start working on it (it took several years for the work on mine to be completed). That said, I love the sound of my Alembicized starfire. It might be quicker and less expensive to order the parts and have them installed locally.

You can order parts online when they are in stock at their online store. For instance, here is a link to their AXY pickups and harness, but they are currently out of stock.

AXY Activator Pickups

alembic.stores.yahoo.net

And as Happy Face mentioned they have made pickups shaped specifically to fit in bisonic routs recently. Hieronymus had those put in his Guild bass.

Note that like everyone, they are still trying to catch up from supply chain issues. You can give them a call and see when they think the parts might be available.

Also, there is a guy on ebay who makes the brass hardware similar to the Alembic parts.

Good luck with your project!

The dream is to one day have it be fully Alembicized but I imagine I'll be doing this in stages-- so I might start just with the Distillers and have someone install that brass Alembic-style bridge.

I do want to ask about battery life and such. Nearly all of my other basses have EMG's and I've been able to go quite a while without needing a battery change. I'm wondering if battery life might be reduced if both the filters and pickups are active?

 

[fronobulax]

Also, there is a guy on ebay who makes the brass hardware similar to the Alembic parts.

A long time ago there was someone who was making Alembic style bridges that would fit Starfires. He made several for folks hanging out at The Dude Pit and then stopped. Someone at Alembic politely asked him to stop.

I guess a decade or more later Alembic has a different attitude.

 

[James Hart]

hanging out at The Dude Pit

I miss that place sometimes... not often, but sometimes.