Starfire with HB1s and a fat nut?

[parker_knoll]

Can we pin down the right years to get original HB1s but a wider nut? Did the wider nuts come in post Fender takeover? There's a '94 SFIII on Reverb with a 41.5mm nut which is the skinny one. My 2002 Corona SFiii-90 has a glorious 44.5mm

 

[GAD]

Varies by guitar. There is no line in the sand.

 

[parker_knoll]

Varies by guitar. There is no line in the sand.

I've refined the thread to consider only Starfires. It could be applied to other models/families but one can start somewhere.

Nut width, surely, is a policy decision. It could well have changed following the Fender takeover. Narrow nuts seem to be consistent from the '60s all the way through to the late '90s, but it would be useful to gather some data. Perhaps we could have a LTG nut width poll?

It's interesting that people carp endlessly about Rickenbackers being hard to play due to a narrow nut, but it's rarely discussed in relation to Guild - perhaps because Rics are known to many for 12 strings.

The 1997 discussed here has a 1.63" nut, as does this 1994. These match my 1989 X160.

As documented by GAD, when the pups change is variable, and could well be related to what stock was in house. I'm thinking that if the SD1s come in from about 1997, it may not be possible to have a wide nut with HB1s, although you could retrofit them until the pups got smaller a few years later on.

 

[hansmoust]

The 1997 discussed here has a 1.63" nut, as does this 1994. These match my 1989 X160.

That '1994' is not from 1994; it's from 1997 and the '1997' is from 1998!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[parker_knoll]

That '1994' is not from 1994; it's from 1997 and the '1997' is from 1998!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

yes, I thought the reissues didn't even exist in 1994!

 

[GAD]

yes, I thought the reissues didn't even exist in 1994!

I’ve owned two ‘94 Starfire IVs.

 

[parker_knoll]

Update - GAD's 1997 SFIII has a 43mm (ish) nut, while this SFII on ebay has 41.5mm, so two different nut widths in that year. My limited enquiries so far put the change to about 1997, although not even evidence yet to say it isn't just a hunch

We could also add to the mix, when do they switch to bridges for unwound G?

 

[GGJaguar]

I have three Starfires (II, III, IV) from 1997 and they all have 1 5/8 inches (41.3mm) nut widths.

 

[parker_knoll]

I have three Starfires (II, III, IV) from 1997 and they all have 1 5/8 inches (41.3mm) nut widths.

you could maybe provide a fairly representative statistical sample on your own

do you have any slightly later ones? What's the first one you have with a wider nut?

 

[GGJaguar]

do you have any slightly later ones? What's the first one you have with a wider nut?

1999 SF-V: 1 5/8 inches (EDIT: actually it's 1 11/16")
2000 SF-III: 1 3/4 (44.5mm)
2001 SF-IV: 1 11/16 (43mm)
2002 SF-III: 1 11/16

 

[GAD]

Your ‘99 SF5 is 1 5/8”? That’s surprising to me. Mine is 1 3/4!

 

[parker_knoll]

1999 SF-V: 1 5/8 inches
2000 SF-III: 1 3/4 (44.5mm)
2001 SF-IV: 1 11/16 (43mm)
2002 SF-III: 1 11/16

Two SF-IIIs is greedy. I think you should sell one of them, ideally the '99

 

[GGJaguar]

Your ‘99 SF5 is 1 5/8”? That’s surprising to me. Mine is 1 3/4!

Whoops! It's a hair over 1 11/16, specifically 1 23/32 inches.

 

[GAD]

Whoops! It's a hair over 1 11/16, specifically 1 23/32 inches.

My view of reality is returned.

 

[parker_knoll]

Everything supporting my post-Fender wider nut theory so far!

 

[fronobulax]

Everything supporting my post-Fender wider nut theory so far!

Well be careful. Once upon a time I embarked on a quest to determine when the Starfire bass acquired the harp bridge and the "suck" switch. It did not end well. I can make some generalizations but there are documented exceptions and while it is likely that when serial number A is "less than" serial number B then guitar A is older than guitar B, that is not always true.

In this case since you are trying to tie this to Fender as a watershed event, does the improvement in QC/QA generally attributed to FMIC suggest that deviations from the spec were less frequent as a result?

 

[parker_knoll]

In this case since you are trying to tie this to Fender as a watershed event, does the improvement in QC/QA generally attributed to FMIC suggest that deviations from the spec were less frequent as a result?

My research is open minded - I do not seek to prove a pre-conceived conclusion, but I do seek to test a hypothesis.

Actually, I was just wondering if there was a change to spec, as much as one existed, rather than fewer deviations. Until recently I had only owned '50s and '60s models and FMIC models. It wasn't until I got my `89 X160 that I discovered it had a skinny nut and that it seems to be standard for Guild at this time, albeit unfashionable in the wider world. I then discovered that '70s Guilds usually/often have the same nut width, and so naturally wondered if Fender might have pushed a more standard dimension. Might a narrow nut explain Guild's relative lack of popularity? Again, that's always something that's been cited with Rics that have the same nut width.

 

[GAD]

Remember, Fender bought Guild n ‘95.

If you want a general guideline I’d go with ‘97 which is when “The Starfires are back” or some such shows up in the catalogs.

 

[parker_knoll]

I;ve just noticed all the Starfires in the '98 catalogue and the '97 catalogue have the wider nut if they are to be believed. However, the small bit of info gathering above shows this to be untrue.

 

[Mark WW]

As someone who just a few years ago came to the realization that what determined my ability to play a guitar for anything longer than 15 minutes was the nut width and the girth or thickness particularly at the lower part around the first fret I find this thread of much interest. My two Corona SFIII's had decent chunky (I never measured) necks. My most recent attempt to acquire a chunk(ier) necked Gretsch demonstrated that their necks were all over the place as well. For me anything at least 1-11/16" is a good starting point but the only guitar I have ever found with a wider nut was my Eastman T486B at 1-3/4".

I guess my point is for those of us that long for a TRUE fat and wide (PRS yours is not even close) neck the choices have never been large. A fat neck IMO starts around .90" at the first fret. Fat and Wides are Unicorns.