The Thunderbird is apparently resurrecting! Maybe they should call it the Phoenix.

The Guilds of Grot

The Guilds of Grot

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mavuser said:
i have to disagree here. A Korean that builds a high quality guitar is a "luthier"

and American guitar builders also work in "factories" (like Westerly or NH)

and anyone one is capable of manufacturing crap, in any country.

nothing wrong with "Made in the USA" but some of the Asian guitar posts are just so overboard, so ridiculous.

Frono, you own a Newark Street Guild Starfire bass. Those are pretty nice! Do you think an assembly line of 8 year olds built it in a Chinese sweat shop? Your post confuses me.

again, nothing wrong with only being interested in owning a USA guitar only. I understand that fully. And vintage vs. new...like night and day yes. But Korens, Japanese, and Mexicans for decades have been churning out some nice stuff that pros don't hesitate to perform or record with.
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Not to answer for Frono here but I have to agree with what he's saying.

To me, a Luthier is somebody that has the skills to build a complete guitar from scratch, (ie, a pile of wood and parts.) from beginning to end.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/luthier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luthier

To me most of the people that work in a guitar factory are not Luthiers, (regardless of what country the guitar is being built in.) They are skilled at what they do, but I'm not sure what percentage could do it all.

I think the multiple Guild factory tours allowed me to view it this way. I mean no offense to anyone, but if I worked in the neck department and all I did all day was to load the necks into a CNC machine, (that I didn't program) for the fret slots to be cut, then press each individual fret into it's slot, then nipped off all the ends, then secured it in the fret leveling sanding machine and rolled it back and forth until they were level, then took it out and placed it in a rack to head over to the neck fitting department, would you call me a Luthier? I think not. I would however be a skilled factory worker.

The Guild factory was filled with these skilled workers. There was the lady that got it all started by selecting the wood for the tops, backs, and sides and then cutting them to shape on a laser cutter. The guy that cut out the rough neck shapes on the band saw. The guy that ran the CNC neck carving machine. (Again, I doubt he did the programming.) The gents that cut out all the braces with CNC milling machines. (They are machine operators not Luthiers), The people in the superstructure shop where the bodies are assembled and sanded. The binding Dude. (He had thumbs like Popeye!). The neck carving/finishers. The single guy that fit all the necks to the bodies. The fillers and stainers. The binding scrapers. The painters. The buffers. The gum chewing final assembly guy. While they are all "guitar builders", I find it impossible to call them Luthiers by my definition.

I rest my case.
 
fronobulax

fronobulax

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mavuser said:
i have to disagree here. A Korean that builds a high quality guitar is a "luthier"

and American guitar builders also work in "factories" (like Westerly or NH)

and anyone one is capable of manufacturing crap, in any country.

nothing wrong with "Made in the USA" but some of the Asian guitar posts are just so overboard, so ridiculous.

Frono, you own a Newark Street Guild Starfire bass. Those are pretty nice! Do you think an assembly line of 8 year olds built it in a Chinese sweat shop? Your post confuses me.

again, nothing wrong with only being interested in owning a USA guitar only. I understand that fully. And vintage vs. new...like night and day yes. But Korens, Japanese, and Mexicans for decades have been churning out some nice stuff that pros don't hesitate to perform or record with.
Click to expand...

I fear several people missed my point or disagree with me on definitions. A luthier is a skilled tradesperson who is capable of building and repairing guitars. It takes three to five years of full time work to become a skilled luthier. There was a discussion of a botched repair recently and it was pointed out that the repair person had some experience making solid body guitars but clearly was not yet a luthier and had no business attempting a complicated repair on an acoustic guitar. I spoke with an employee at New Hartford who explicitly said he was not a luthier but he was the best darn CNC programmer/operator that you could get and that the machines he supervised produced mighty fine guitars. When Cordoba was staffing the Oxnard plant the help wanted ads were for factory workers with woodworking experience, not (all) luthiers. So I believe it does a disservice to real luthiers to call everyone who works in a guitar factory a "luthier" and that is why I elected to make the comment.

I am explicitly talking about the skill level and not the location or nationality.

I recognize that I have a very strongly rooted opinion concerning the definition of luthier (as opposed to just presenting agreed upon and documented facts) but not everyone who calls themselves a luthier is going to get my repair and maintenance business.

Hey! You kids! Instead of hanging out on my lawn why don't you get off your butts and help me shovel the side walk.
 
mavuser

mavuser

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Default said:
My knock against Korean guitars is they don't keep any American luthiers employed.
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Considering Fronos initial comment was in reply to this quote above, it is easy to see how his post could be taken out of context.

And I've played some Korean, Japanese and Mexican guitars that could sure give some Westerly stuff a run for its money. Especially early Westerly
 
R

richardp69

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mavuser said:
And I've played some Korean, Japanese and Mexican guitars that could sure give some Westerly stuff a run for its money. Especially early Westerly
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I would humbly suggest we not forget about some of the Chinese gear either. The Blueridge line and the Epiphone Masterbilts are really reasonably priced and IMHO sound killer. I've got a few on them and am not at all ashamed to say so.

Still love my Guilds though, I gotta say. Best bang for the buck of any USA made guitar I do believe.
 
NEONMOONY

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While some worship at the alter of the Japanese guitar, many overlook the fact that there really have been some that were not worthy or playable. (playing on the the religious humor)
 
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adorshki

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The Guilds of Grot said:
The Guild factory was filled with these skilled workers. There was the lady that got it all started by selecting the wood for the tops, backs, and sides and then cutting them to shape on a laser cutter. The guy that cut out the rough neck shapes on the band saw. The guy that ran the CNC neck carving machine. (Again, I doubt he did the programming.) The gents that cut out all the braces with CNC milling machines. (They are machine operators not Luthiers), The people in the superstructure shop where the bodies are assembled and sanded. The binding Dude. (He had thumbs like Popeye!).
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And let's not forget that fellow who ran the archback press:


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Sal

Sal

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Quantum Strummer said:
I love "ugly" guitars so long as they play nicely. Thunderbirds fall in that category. The new Music Man St. Vincent signature model might also fall in the ugly category for some folks, but I think it's gorgeous.

-Dave-
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I like ugly guitars too but I get fussy about proportions. The Music Man St Vincent is really great but the headstock is too small. Music Man uses this same headstock across their whole guitar line and I don't think it looks right on any of them.


I do love the headstock on the Thunderbird!


And for the record I think St Vincent's head is proportioned beautifully!
 
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trimbo

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I can't wait for the Thunderbird to be reissued. I have a clone I built from photos about 10 years ago using original hardware and pick ups. I sent Hans a photo and he thought it was pretty cool.

The sunburst looks darker in the centre on the reissue prototypes than the original guitars. I had the same problem doing the sunburst on my clone, and wondered if it was because some of the originals had alder rather than mahogany bodies?
 
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