What tailpiece for my 1964 Starfire IV?

[chopstickmusic]

Hi,

I’m new to this forum so bare with my noob question please

I have acquired a 1964 Starfire IV from Hoboken and it is in original condition.
I have seen these SF4’s with tremolos but mine unfortunately isn’t. My guitar guy suggested the new Bigbsy B11 which would perfectly fit my SF4 which has a 42mm body height.
My SF4 is still in the shop so I can’t take any photos, but found these 2 on my phone which I attached.
I searched for an original early 60ies Guild branded tremolo tailpiece for my SF4 but these seem very hard to find. So I’m thinking to go for a period correct Bigsby branded tailpiece. I read that B3 and B6 would fit my Guild SF4?
My repair guy said he would only opt for the modern Bigsby B11? Would a vintage 60ies B3 or B6 not fit as well? Ideally I would love an original 1964 Guild tailpiece but would also be ok with a 60ies Bigsby branded one. Which would you prefer and would you be more patient and try source an original Guild one? Would a modern Bigsby B11 also be ok in your opinion? I would of course keep all original parts so in case I can revert it back to its original condtion.

Noah from Guildguitars.com suggested I post in this forum as he wasn’t sure if this modern tailpiece would fit my vintage SF4:
https://shop.guildguitars.com/produ...st-models-starfire-v-aluminum/?v=f24485ae434a

Thanks so much for your valued opinion.

Chi

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG! Very nice Starfire IV! I can't answer your question right now, but somebody will be with you soon I'm sure.
Maybe important if somebody has a vintage Guildsby for sale where in the world you are located as we have sources for vintage parts in Europe and in the US.

Ralf

 

[secndshft]

Congrats @chopstickmusic on the Starfire. You’re going to love it. Regarding the Bigsby, I’d consider waiting for a vintage Guild tailpiece, as I’ve found the holes line up correctly, leading to no additional screw holes in the body. And while they are somewhat hard to come by, they pop up from time to time.

This old thread has photos of my old II > III conversion.

 

[chopstickmusic]

Welcome to LTG! Very nice Starfire IV! I can't answer your question right now, but somebody will be woth you soon I'm sure.
Maybe important if somebody has a vintage Guildsby for sale where in the world you are located as we have sources for vintage parts in Europe and in the US.

Ralf

Hi,

thanks for the warm welcome
I’m located in Berlin, Germany. I’ll cover insured shipping and custom fees etc.. so really anybody in the world who has a fitting period correct Guildsby, please let me know

 

[chopstickmusic]

Congrats @chopstickmusic on the Starfire. You’re going to love it. Regarding the Bigsby, I’d consider waiting for a vintage Guild tailpiece, as I’ve found the holes line up correctly, leading to no additional screw holes in the body. And while they are somewhat hard to come by, they pop up from time to time.

This old thread has photos of my old II > III conversion.

Thanks for pointing me to your thread. Seems like many would leave it as is. Usually I would too but I‘m with you and I think you did the perfect job converting it. No extra holes etc.. thats how I want to do it as well. So patience is the key.
I haven‘t checked Facebook marketplace but will now kee an eye out for a period correct Guildsby

 

[BradHK]

I am sure you are aware, but just in case you are not, the Starfire IV would have come from the factory with the harp tailpiece and the Starfire V (and VI) would have had the Guildsby. The Guildsby on the Starfire V is different than the ones used on the Starfire III (and other Guilds of this era). It has a roller that the strings go under to help the string break angle over the bridge. I think this style is a B12 on the current Bigsby website based upon the roller and mounting pattern. Unfortunately, this style of Guildsby requires two holes drilled in the top of the guitar so not a reversible mod. Not sure if a Guildsby style from a Starfire III (a B11) would work with the angle of the top and break over at the bridge. Maybe somebody here has tried this and can comment. If it would work it would be a good solution as no extra holes would be needed. Here is my Starfire V with the factory Guildsby and you can see one of the mounting screws in the top.

 

[chopstickmusic]

I am sure you are aware, but just in case you are not, the Starfire IV would have come from the factory with the harp tailpiece and the Starfire V (and VI) would have had the Guildsby. The Guildsby on the Starfire V is different than the ones used on the Starfire III (and other Guilds of this era). It has a roller that the strings go under to help the string break angle over the bridge. I think this style is a B12 on the current Bigsby website based upon the roller and mounting pattern. Unfortunately, this style of Guildsby requires two holes drilled in the top of the guitar so not a reversible mod. Not sure if a Guildsby style from a Starfire III (a B11) would work with the angle of the top and break over at the bridge. Maybe somebody here has tried this and can comment. If it would work it would be a good solution as no extra holes would be needed. Here is my Starfire V with the factory Guildsby and you can see one of the mounting screws in the top.

Hi Brad,

thanks so much for your input.
I was not aware that the SF4 came only with the harp tailpiece and the SF5/6 came with the Guildsby.
A quick google search a while back showed this 1964 SF4 with Guildsby ( https://www.sylvanmusic.com/store/p2762/1964_Guild_Starfire_IV_SF-4_Cherry.html ) so I wrongly assumed that it came either way.
My guitar guy, who seems very experienced, said that he could add a new Bigsby B11 without adding any new holes and my SF4 would be reversable to its original state.

I wonder what Guildsby was installed onto this 1964 SF4 from my google search? (pic attached, courtesy of Sylvan Music). The website states its all original?

Also, would this tailpiece for a SF3 maybe work for my SF4?

Vibrato Tailpiece Fully Hollowbody Newark St. Models - Starfire III, CE-100D, X-175B - Aluminum | Guild Guitars

Replacement Guild Vibrato Tailpiece for hollowbody Newark St. models. Compatible with Starfire III, CE-100D and X-175B Polished aluminum. Item #: 009-6289-100 If you’re looking for a part to fit a guitar that was made prior to 2014, please click here.

shop.guildguitars.com

Thanks again for your help

 

[BradHK]

Hi Brad,

thanks so much for your input.
I was not aware that the SF4 came only with the harp tailpiece and the SF5/6 came with the Guildsby.
A quick google search a while back showed this 1964 SF4 with Guildsby ( https://www.sylvanmusic.com/store/p2762/1964_Guild_Starfire_IV_SF-4_Cherry.html ) so I wrongly assumed that it came either way.
My guitar guy, who seems very experienced, said that he could add a new Bigsby B11 without adding any new holes and my SF4 would be reversable to its original state.

I wonder what Guildsby was installed onto this 1964 SF4 from my google search? (pic attached, courtesy of Sylvan Music). The website states its all original?

Thanks again for your help

That is a Guildsby like the ones used on the Starfire III that require no screws in the top and the break over angle looks similar to the Starfire III. Looks like it would work. That Guildsby could be factory (you never know with Guild) but I would have expected a “Spec” on the label to signify that it had something different than the normal specifications such as a Guildsby, different tuners, etc.. In the reverb add the label just says Starfire IV CH. let us know if you try the B11 and if the break over angle is good. The B11 also has a three hole mounting pattern but not sure if they match the pattern on your Guild. Let us know if it does.

 

[BradHK]

Here is a 1969 Starfire V currently on Reverb with that same B11 style Guildsby and it has very little break over angle at the bridge. The neck angle of your Starfire and whether your bridge is bottomed out will play a factor. I hope it works out and let us know!

 

[SFIV1967]

That Guildsby could be factory (you never know with Guild) but I would have expected a “Spec” on the label to signify that it had something different than the normal specifications such as a Guildsby, different tuners, etc..

I also would agree that the label should have shown "spec" if the guitar was ordered with the Guildsby from the factory. I would say it was converted after she was shipped.

Ralf

 

[SFIV1967]

I haven‘t checked Facebook marketplace but will now kee an eye out for a period correct Guildsby

Best to contact Hans in the Netherlands via his webpage, he most probably has what you need. It might not be shown on his webpage, just ask him.

GuitarsGalore

Ralf

 

[chopstickmusic]

That is a Guildsby like the ones used on the Starfire III that require no screws in the top and the break over angle looks similar to the Starfire III. Looks like it would work. That Guildsby could be factory (you never know with Guild) but I would have expected a “Spec” on the label to signify that it had something different than the normal specifications such as a Guildsby, different tuners, etc.. In the reverb add the label just says Starfire IV CH. let us know if you try the B11 and if the break over angle is good. The B11 also has a three hole mounting pattern but not sure if they match the pattern on your Guild. Let us know if it does.

Hi Brad,

I‘ll definitely will keep this thread up to date with the progressions I‘ll (hopefully) make regarding the tailpiece. My guitar repair guy said he checked and the Bigsby B11 would definitely fit. I‘ll find out if the holes if the B11 will be the same as the original harp tailpiece

 

[chopstickmusic]

Best to contact Hans in the Netherlands via his webpage, he most probably has what you need. It might not be shown on his webpage, just ask him.

GuitarsGalore

Ralf

Thanks so much for pointing me to Hans. If he has what I need, I‘ll be updating this thread with photos sooner than I thought

 

[chopstickmusic]

Here is a 1969 Starfire V currently on Reverb with that same B11 style Guildsby and it has very little break over angle at the bridge. The neck angle of your Starfire and whether your bridge is bottomed out will play a factor. I hope it works out and let us know!

Thanks for this. I wish I had my SF4 with me to see how the break angle at the bridge etc is. I sure will keep you posted

 

[chopstickmusic]

I also would agree that the label should have shown "spec" if the guitar was ordered with the Guildsby from the factory. I would say it was converted after she was shipped.

Ralf

Where exactly would „spec“ be shown? Does it mean that Guild would remove „spec“ on the label if sth was altered after it left the factory?

 

[Eric66]

Hi,

I’m new to this forum so bare with my noob question please

I have acquired a 1964 Starfire IV from Hoboken and it is in original condition.
I have seen these SF4’s with tremolos but mine unfortunately isn’t. My guitar guy suggested the new Bigbsy B11 which would perfectly fit my SF4 which has a 42mm body height.
My SF4 is still in the shop so I can’t take any photos, but found these 2 on my phone which I attached.
I searched for an original early 60ies Guild branded tremolo tailpiece for my SF4 but these seem very hard to find. So I’m thinking to go for a period correct Bigsby branded tailpiece. I read that B3 and B6 would fit my Guild SF4?
My repair guy said he would only opt for the modern Bigsby B11? Would a vintage 60ies B3 or B6 not fit as well? Ideally I would love an original 1964 Guild tailpiece but would also be ok with a 60ies Bigsby branded one. Which would you prefer and would you be more patient and try source an original Guild one? Would a modern Bigsby B11 also be ok in your opinion? I would of course keep all original parts so in case I can revert it back to its original condtion.

Noah from Guildguitars.com suggested I post in this forum as he wasn’t sure if this modern tailpiece would fit my vintage SF4:
https://shop.guildguitars.com/produ...st-models-starfire-v-aluminum/?v=f24485ae434a

Thanks so much for your valued opinion.

Chi

Congratulations on being the new owner of that vintage 1964 Starfire IV! I’m sure you will enjoy it with or without the “Bigsby”.

Although I’m a new member of this forum, I have owned a 1966 Starfire II since new and it’s definitely the best playing and sounding electric guitar in my hands I have ever felt. It’s the standard by which I compare all other electric guitars.

Please do not have any additional holes drilled to accommodate your desire to have a tremolo! I hope you can find one that fits without doing that.

I have a feeling you are in the right forum to help with your search.

 

[chazmo]

If there, it would be after the model name, e.g., Starfire IV SPEC (or something like that). As Ralf said, this guitar was probably modified by the customer, not at the shop.

Welcome aboard, chopstickmusic.

 

[SFIV1967]

Where exactly would „spec“ be shown? Does it mean that Guild would remove „spec“ on the label if sth was altered after it left the factory?

The "special" or "spc" or "spec" would be written on the label when the guitar left the factory.
So if a Starfire IV shipped with an added master volume as example or with Guildsby that would be marked on the label with "special" or "spc" or "spec". Anything not according to specification was marked that way.

Here are just two examples of other vintage Guilds, an F-30 and a CA-100:



Ralf

 

[Walter Broes]

Some IV's came with a Bigsby, I used to have a cherry 1964 with a factory Bigsby, and I don't think it had the "special" on the label.

A 1964 would have had the single-roller "Guilsby" like the kind you see on a Starfire III. They háve become very hard to find, and expensive if you do. The value of these guitars having gone up as much as it has, I'd try to be patient and wait for a US Guildsby to show up on Ebay, Reverb or maybe on this forum.
If you have no problem getting good playing action with the bridge that's on your guitar now, there is a very good chance a single roller Bigsby will work - that's a medium tall bridge.

 

[chazmo]

So, Walter, what's the difference between a Starfire IV and V then? Forgive my ignorance. A quick read of the bible doesn't indicate that a Bigsby would be on a IV. Not that I doubt you, Walter, but the bible seems to only talk about a harp tailpiece for the IV. Incomplete, I guess.

edit: OK, I just read more carefully and I see there was some change in the electronics (and a 3pc neck)... So, I would imagine those would be the defining characteristics to differ between them, not the tailpiece.