What tailpiece for my 1964 Starfire IV?

[Walter Broes]

I'm not sure - I think Bigsbies were probably an option on everything, and some dealers ordered them like that?

 

[chopstickmusic]

Congratulations on being the new owner of that vintage 1964 Starfire IV! I’m sure you will enjoy it with or without the “Bigsby”.

Although I’m a new member of this forum, I have owned a 1966 Starfire II since new and it’s definitely the best playing and sounding electric guitar in my hands I have ever felt. It’s the standard by which I compare all other electric guitars.

Please do not have any additional holes drilled to accommodate your desire to have a tremolo! I hope you can find one that fits without doing that.

I have a feeling you are in the right forum to help with your search.

Hi Eric,

congrats to your SFII
My SFIV is also my absolute favourite to play on.
I will most definitely not drill any holes into the body. Everything will be reversable to it’s original condition for sure
Thanks for your input

 

[chopstickmusic]

If there, it would be after the model name, e.g., Starfire IV SPEC (or something like that). As Ralf said, this guitar was probably modified by the customer, not at the shop.

Welcome aboard, chopstickmusic.

Thanks for the warm welcome
I did find a photo of the label but can’t make what it says after IV? Does it say “Spc”?

EDIT: Sb for sunburst like BradHK suggested

 

[BradHK]

Thanks for the warm welcome
I did find a photo of the label but can’t make what it says after IV? Does it say “Spc”?

It looks like “Sb” for Sunburst

 

[chopstickmusic]

The "special" or "spc" or "spec" would be written on the label when the guitar left the factory.
So if a Starfire IV shipped with an added master volume as example or with Guildsby that would be marked on the label with "special" or "spc" or "spec". Anything not according to specification was marked that way.

Here are just two examples of other vintage Guilds, an F-30 and a CA-100:



Ralf

Thanks for the info Ralf
The only photo I took from my SF4 before I left it at the shop was actually of the label, but am not sure what it says after IV? Maybe “Spc”?

 

[chopstickmusic]

It looks like “Sb” for Sunburst

That makes sense
Thanks Brad

 

[BradHK]

edit: OK, I just read more carefully and I see there was some change in the electronics (and a 3pc neck)... So, I would imagine those would be the defining characteristics to differ between them, not the tailpiece.

I know I am going to miss something but these are the specifications I always remember when describing the differences between a 1960’s Starfire IV and V. The V has block inlays, Guildsby and matching bridge, master volume, and upgraded tuners. I am sure I missed something but these are the key items I think about.

 

[chopstickmusic]

Some IV's came with a Bigsby, I used to have a cherry 1964 with a factory Bigsby, and I don't think it had the "special" on the label.

A 1964 would have had the single-roller "Guilsby" like the kind you see on a Starfire III. They háve become very hard to find, and expensive if you do. The value of these guitars having gone up as much as it has, I'd try to be patient and wait for a US Guildsby to show up on Ebay, Reverb or maybe on this forum.
If you have no problem getting good playing action with the bridge that's on your guitar now, there is a very good chance a single roller Bigsby will work - that's a medium tall bridge.

Thanks. patience is the key so I’ll try and source an original Guildsby, even if costly but the old lady deserves it. I have no problem with the bridge so a single roller Bigsby should work.

If only this Guildsby wasn’t gold, it’d probably be a great fit?

Guild Starfire VI Bigsby B6-G - GOLD original vintage USA x500 Duane eddy, Artist | Reverb

Worldwide Shipping!Original vintage guild bigsby b6 vibrato tailpiece. Complete with spring and screws, GOLD, for fancy pants deluxe models, SF-6, Dianne eddy, x-500, etc. Nice shape, great patina.Enjoy!

reverb.com

 

[SFIV1967]

So, Walter, what's the difference between a Starfire IV and V then?

Oh, that is a complicated topic.... You would need to study the Starfire history based on serial numbers here.... According to Walter a few in 1964 were shipped with bigsby (or was it a Guildsby?) and no "spec" was on the label, at least that is what Walter remembers. Also some dealers especially in UK ordered some normal Starfires and added bigsbys but that mostly happened on the Starfire II which they converted to a "III" that way...Not sure I heared that on a IV.
However once the V was discontinued in around 1973 the IV got V appointments like master volume and block inlays...So you see its not easy...
And a guy with the name Keith Richards played an early 70's Starfire IV with HB-1s and added Bigsby in "Shine a Light"...Hence some people even resprayed the sunburst one black to look like the one Keith played...Keith original one which he gifted to Buddy Guy is hanging now in Chicago in the Buddy Guy Legends bar.

Ralf

 

[chopstickmusic]

Oh, that is a complicated topic.... You would need to study the Starfire history based on serial numbers here.... According to Walter a few in 1964 were shipped with bigsby (or was it a Guildsby?) and no "spec" was on the label, at least that is what Walter remembers. Also some dealers especially in UK ordered some normal Starfires and added bigsbys but that mostly happened on the Starfire II which they converted to a "III" that way...Not sure I heared that on a IV.
However once the V was discontinued in around 1973 the IV got V appointments like master volume and block inlays...So you see its not easy...
And a guy with the name Keith Richards played an early 70's Starfire IV with HB-1s and added Bigsby in "Shine a Light"...Hence some people even resprayed them black to look like the one Keith played...Keith original one is hanging in Chicago in the Buddy Guy Legends bar.

Ralf

I’m learning so much - thanks for spreading some incredible knowledge and entertaining anecdotes here

 

[SFIV1967]

Oh, and one more important info!
A 1964 had a neck to body connection on the 16th fret vs later in 1966 when the connection changed to the 18th fret!
So when comparing them the position of the neck and pickups and the bridge changed on the body! That has also an influence on the type of bigsby I guess due to the break angle. Better break angle on the 1964 model vs. the 1966 model.

 

[chopstickmusic]

Oh, and one more important info!
A 1964 had a neck to body connection on the 16th fret vs later in 1966 when the connection changed to the 18th fret!
So when comparing them the position of the neck and pickups and the bridge changed on the body! That has also an influence on the type of bigsby I guess due to the break angle. Better break angle on the 1964 model vs. the 1966 model.

Thats another great observation - This forum is really amazing.. thanks so much

 

[SFIV1967]

I’m learning so much - thanks for spreading some incredible knowledge and entertaining anecdotes here

And if you wonder how that black early 70's Guild Starfire IV with added Guildsby from Keith Richards ended up in Buddy Guy's Legends bar in Chicago, here is the story: (Keith played her at Beacon Theatre and gifted her to Buddy at the very end if you watch carefully "It's yours!", even Ronnie was surprised!)



Ralf

 

[chopstickmusic]

And if you wonder how that black early 70's Guild Starfire IV with added Guildsby from Keith Richards ended up in Buddy Guy's Legends bar in Chicago, here is the story: (Keith played her at Beacon Theatre and gifted her to Buddy at the very end if you watch carefully "It's yours!", even Ronnie was surprised!)



Ralf

Thanks for sharing Ralf - I’ll be watching this tonight when I get home from the studio