What to expect from '67 Starfire I with neck PU

[motopsyche]

Greetings all,

I have a line on a '67 Starfire I bass with a single Bisonic up in the neck position. Not new to Guild sixes, but completely new to Guild basses and would like to add one.

What kind of tone and performance can I expect from the bass given the pickup location? What strings get the most from these bad boys? I'll be pushing it through my '66 Ampeg B-15N. Any consideration to scale length?

All guidance is much appreciated.

Gracias,

Bill

 

[fronobulax]

Wow.

The short version. Bisonic anywhere trumps the Guild humbuckers. Original '67? Check. Most of the folks with SF II's who have been asked seem to endorse the idea if they could only have one PU it would be the neck and they could live with that. Since the bridge position SF I's are rare I don't think anyone would advise you to wait as opposed to jumping on a '67.

So tone and performance? For tone a SF I can come pretty close to Jack Casady's with his proto-Alembic Starfires. I'll find YouTibe clips if you don't or can't. There is a woody growl that I don't think you can get without a Bisonic. If you like that tone there is basically only one way to get it. If you don't like it then perhaps the SF I is not for you.

There are definitely bass sounds that a SF I cannot produce. I confess that my Pilot has become my goto bass because the sound is different and I don't worry about a circa $500 bass. All that, though, I suspect if I had to reduce to one bass that the SF would stay.

Folks really like the TI strings. I've had Rotosounds and D'Addario on mine and TI will be next.

The short scale length works for me and is great for certain bass lines from the 60's. I thought I couldn't play a 34" scale but it turns out it is the thick neck that gives me problems.

Not sure what else you want to know but that never stops me from posting.

 

[dapmdave]

Bill, I picked up a '67 Starfire 1 bass a few months ago.

If you'd like to hear it, I've got a little clip of a recording: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... D=12035189

I'm not really a bassist, and I've only begun to explore the guitar. So this is pretty much just the unvarnished sound, brightened up a bit by using a pick, in this case. I've got the much-loved Thomastik-Infeld flats on it.

This was recorded direct.

Dave

 

[motopsyche]

Guys, I really appreciate the insights. I'm really drawn to this one. The seller says that the pole pieces appear quite high as set now, and they interfere with the strings above the 15th fret. Where do you have your poles set relative to the top of the pickup body? Any interference with the strings high on the neck?

Many thanks!

Bill

 

[dapmdave]

Guys, I really appreciate the insights. I'm really drawn to this one. The seller says that the pole pieces appear quite high as set now, and the interfere with the strings above the 15th fret. Where do you have your poles set relative to the top of the pickup body? Any interference with the strings high on the neck?

Many thanks!

Bill

When I first got mine, I did have a problem with the strings hitting the pickup when fretting high on the neck. Beyond adjusting pole pieces, you can adjust the bridge height, or you can adjust the neck relief, the pickup height, and maybe even replace the frets. Last resort would be a neck reset.

I did everything up to the fret job. A reset was not necessary.

Dave

 

[hieronymous]

Many folks really like the TI strings.

Fixed it for you - not everyone likes TI strings, myself included. Well, I like them sometimes but on my Guild I have LaBellas - I like more tension than the TIs have.

Guys, I really appreciate the insights. I'm really drawn to this one. The seller says that the pole pieces appear quite high as set now, and the interfere with the strings above the 15th fret. Where do you have your poles set relative to the top of the pickup body? Any interference with the strings high on the neck?
Bill

My '68 Starfire I had a bit of an issue with the pole-pieces being too high for the E string. Problem was, if I screwed it down to where it played will physically, the pickup shorted out! So I compromised and raised the action and tried not to play so close to the neck. I tend to hit the strings pretty hard though. Bit of a different issue than the one that you are looking at though - realize that they are adjustable, but may not adjust down far enough to get out of the way. I was advised that I could have a new pickup ring made so that the pickup would sit lower - not sure if that would have required routing. I ended up selling the bass, so it is no longer my problem. Good luck with yours if you go through with it!

 

[fronobulax]

Many folks really like the TI strings.

Fixed it for you - not everyone likes TI strings, myself included. Well, I like them sometimes but on my Guild I have LaBellas - I like more tension than the TIs have.

Cut me some slack. "many" does not mean "everyone" :wink:

When the question comes up there are more people who suggest TIs than just about any other brand. Once that suggestion gets some traction there are a handful of folks who will point out that TIs are low tension and that low tension does not work for them. Sometimes we even get into a discussion of what low tension "feels" like since the argument against TIs is always a playability argument, and not a tone or sound argument. I have been willing to parrot the recommendation because they are what Jack Casady used on his Starfires and some of the people on LTG who like TIs have logged more hours on bass than I can imagine. But, next time the question comes up I will mention tension along with TIs.

As for the pole pieces mine are pretty low and don't interfere with playing at all. That said, I think I have a lighter touch than a lot of players.

 

[motopsyche]

Your input on pole piece height (and related adjustments) is very helpful. I'm not sure how a neck reset figures into it. my experience is that, when the neck begins to pull up, the strings move further away from the pickups, not closer. I'll look at this Starfire tonight, so that should clarify things for me. My guess is that the pole pieces have been raised too high, presumably to give some tonal "improvement" to the bass. As one of my friendly seller of vintage guitars is fond of saying, "don't worry about the high end, all the money's in the first 7 frets."

I'll report back after inspection. Meanwhile, any other helpful hints on things to check out on this bass would be appreciated.

Many thanks, Guilders.

Bill

 

[idealassets]

Your input on pole piece height (and related adjustments) is very helpful

Its amazing what a little bit of adjusting can do for your guitar. I have gotten my 6 string and 12 string Guild's to play wonderfully to my style, which is perhaps a bit "heavy handed", or to some folks "loud".

As for bass, I don't know that much as to what a really good action and setup might be, since I have not played bass nearly as much as I intitally thought I would.

I recall a discussion here on LTG about one fellow that had a problem with his Starfire bass E string that was always hitting something on the guitar and vibrating.

My 66' Starfire bass played well the day that I demo'd it to buy it. Apparently in its (supposed) history, my particular bass was not played that much. The original owner was a woman that must have known how to set it up very well. I haven't touched the set-up while I have owned it, and its working along fine. I can't seem to pull myself away from my Guild 12 string to play bass. So may guitars, such limited time...

Craig

 

[idealassets]

So may guitars, such limited time...

So many guitars, such limited time...

Craig

 

[fronobulax]

On today's menu, crow and humble pie.

I received a politely pointed PM and would like to make a few public comments as a result.

First, after doing some research, I have to correct my memory concerning Casady's Starfire. I cannot find anything I consider authoritative and definitive that says what he did use but if I were to make a corrected statement it would be something along the lines that he used Pyramids and it is believed that the closest approximation to 60's Pyramids available in today's market are the TI's.

Second, TIs are expensive and mentioning them first to a question from a potential new bassist probably wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done. A new bassist is probably better off buying $20 strings and $60 worth of lessons or instruction books :wink:

Third, low tension strings are a personal preference and discussions tend to become polarized. Thus, if I was going to mention TIs in response to a question I should have acknowledged their low tension at the same time.

Finally, I often will present consensus opinions in a way that obscures that they are just opinions and gets them confused with facts. My problem, but this is not the first time someone else has confused opinions with facts when I am presenting them.

 

[Happy Face]

Good Lord, are we gonna get all riled up about string recommendations here? To quote Frankie, "Relax, don't do it.."

Thank you.

 

[hieronymous]

Good Lord, are we gonna get all riled up about string recommendations here? To quote Frankie, "Relax, don't do it.."

Thank you.

Sorry, that was me.

 

[motopsyche]

Riled up or not, all of this discussion is very helpful. While recognizing there's no "ideal" set up or strings that work equally well for everyone, I'd love to hear from you Starfire bass owners the string to neck pickup body clearance when pressing, say, the E string at the 12th fret. That is, if you're satisfied with where it is now.

Off to see the '67 in person tomorrow. What I've heard is that the strings on it are beat and they hit the top of the neck pickup poles from the 15th fret on.

Can't wait.

Thanks, all!

Bill

 

[Happy Face]

Good Lord, are we gonna get all riled up about string recommendations here? To quote Frankie, "Relax, don't do it.."

Thank you.

Sorry, that was me.

No, Hieronymous. My comment was stupid and adds nothing of vlaue.

I just wanted to quote Frankie Goes to Hollywood!!

 

[mgod]

Well. Lets be nice. But lets also be real.

According to the guy who sets up my instruments - and has built me one or two - I play harder than most of his clients. I was just musical directer of a new musical in workshop here - we set up some of my unusually good recording equipment to get refs of the tunes, and even over the singers and piano and amplified acoustic and the bass amp you can hear the sound of me hitting the strings on a graphite-necked MusicMan. So I guess it true. I play really hard. AND, even so, T-Is are still my favorite strings. Because of the sound and the intonation. So they seem to hold up to my unusually hard playing just fine.

 

[idealassets]

On today's menu, crow and humble pie

Frono,
I'll take most of anything you say to the bank.

 

[idealassets]

I play really hard. AND, even so, T-Is are still my favorite strings

Amen to that brutha.

By the way motopsyche, I hope you do well with looking at your potential bass purchase, and I am mainly in awe of mgod knowledge and ability on the bass, particularly regarding Guild's.

Here's hoping that you will have success with it. I have found original Guild Starfire basses to be quite an intersting little ditty. They just seem to get cooler every day.

Here is an image with my Starfire's in it. Its a 66' on the right, and a 97' on the left (currently owned by a very pleased bassist in LA, Cal.)

Craig

 

[idealassets]

Its a 66' on the right, and a 97' on the left

-Other way around; 66' SFI on the left, and 97' SFII on the right...

And then: Ric 12 string, Guilds: 2012 F512, 2010 F512, 2007 D55, 2007 F50.

But no one really needs that many.

Craig

 

[Happy Face]

Well. Lets be nice. But lets also be real.

According to the guy who sets up my instruments - and has built me one or two - I play harder than most of his clients. I was just musical directer of a new musical in workshop here - we set up some of my unusually good recording equipment to get refs of the tunes, and even over the singers and piano and amplified acoustic and the bass amp you can hear the sound of me hitting the strings on a graphite-necked MusicMan. So I guess it true. I play really hard. AND, even so, T-Is are still my favorite strings. Because of the sound and the intonation. So they seem to hold up to my unusually hard playing just fine.

Well then, Simian God, you won't have an engineer using a DI, a mike on your cab and, finally, a mike up on the neck to catch your full sound? The first time I had that done, it intimdated the hell out of me. Even though I loved the concept. But it has been a very long time since I've been fussed over like that.

Meanwhile, you've said you leave your TIs on forever. I always love to change them. The new sets sound so alive. But recently I've come to be annoyed by how alive they are at first. Gettin' old I guess.