'Z' or '2' on the back of D-55 headstock. Meaning?

[daviddling54]

I'm looking at buying a 1981 Guild D-55 and have a question about the symbol 'Z' or '2' that appears on the back of the headstock (see below) just below the SN and Made in U.S.A..

What does this symbol mean? Could it mean this is a factory second? Anyone know? How concerned should I be?

Thanks!

David

 

[AcornHouse]

Factory second. Usually a minor cosmetic defect somewhere. They didn’t let structural issues out of the factory. (Well, not on purpose.)

 

[SFIV1967]

Welcome to LTG! Like Chris said, usually no issue to be concerned with. Usually something in the lacquer only. Many owners said they see nothing.
Ralf

 

[walrus]

Yup. Factory second. Here's the "Z" on my previously owned '84 D64. Never could see any flaw that would justify it.




walrus

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome. Factory second. Almost certainly for a cosmetic flaw. On a 30 year old instrument you are unlikely to be able to figure out what it was.

 

[dreadnut]

Still, it should mean a lower price than a comparable one that isn't a factory second.

 

[fronobulax]

Still, it should mean a lower price than a comparable one that isn't a factory second.

As a buyer I'd agree with you. But as a seller I'd disclose the flaws and imperfections, whether they came from the factory or not and price based upon my opinion of comparable condition and not the presence of the Scarlet Z.

 

[davismanLV]

You could make it a negotiating point for the sale, but after all this time being a second has very little impact on value. My opinion.... if it's a good guitar and you love it, don't let the Z scare you!!

 

[tommym]

You could make it a negotiating point for the sale, but after all this time being a second has very little impact on value. My opinion.... if it's a good guitar and you love it, don't let the Z scare you!!

"....don't let the Z scare you!!

That reminds me of the movie scene when Zorro (George Hamilton) quickly etches a "Z" into the door with his sword.

Zorro: "You recognize that famous sign?"
Peasant: "Si senor, it's the number 2."

Tommy

 

[GAD]

Sorry, but I disagree about a 2nd not affecting value. Sure it may play, sound, and look just as good as a non-second, but the average buyer will not be willing to pay as much as the same guitar without the second mark. If you don't agree with that when buying, then you'll come to that conclusion when selling.

I've owned a few seconds, and they were great instruments, but I got them for a bargain price and I'd expect any guitar marked USED/2nd/Z/whatever to have a price commensurate with its status as a 2nd. You should consider a 2nd mark to be a way to get a great deal on a great guitar.

 

[fronobulax]

Sorry, but I disagree about a 2nd not affecting value. Sure it may play, sound, and look just as good as a non-second, but the average buyer will not be willing to pay as much as the same guitar without the second mark. If you don't agree with that when buying, then you'll come to that conclusion when selling.

I've owned a few seconds, and they were great instruments, but I got them for a bargain price and I'd expect any guitar marked USED/2nd/Z/whatever to have a price commensurate with its status as a 2nd. You should consider a 2nd mark to be a way to get a great deal on a great guitar.

I bow to your greater experience. But I am not certain it generalizes. We probably find common ground when we agonize over the definition of comparable.

 

[walrus]

When I bought my D64 shown above, the seller (a local dealer) told me that the guitar was a "second", although never mentioned the "Z", and I never noticed it! But the price was definitely discounted.

walrus

 

[GAD]

As a buyer I'd agree with you. But as a seller I'd disclose the flaws and imperfections, whether they came from the factory or not and price based upon my opinion of comparable condition and not the presence of the Scarlet Z.

I bow to your greater experience. But I am not certain it generalizes. We probably find common ground when we agonize over the definition of comparable.

I know you're not the type to misrepresent something and I'd expect an ad from you to have full pictures, but for the sake of argument if someone sold a guitar as you've described and did not disclose the fact that it was a second, I'd return it or get a substantial partial refund and Reverb/Ebay would side with me every time since the guitar is as not as advertised.

I'd also be willing to bet that if someone sold such a guitar priced as you've described and DID include that it was a second that it simply would not sell unless it was a super-rare desirable guitar, and even then I have my doubts.

 

[daviddling54]

Thanks for everyone for all the good info. At my age, the re-sale value will be of more interest to my heirs and estate. I will use the info to see if I can get a better price, but it sounds like being a second won't affect the playability/tonal qualities.

 

[richardp69]

I've owned several factory seconds. No issues on any of them. If you ever sell though it will most likely command a lower price than a "non second:.