What Guild did Suzanne Vega use the first years?

sitka_spruce · Nov 12, 2007

I'm curious what Guild Suzanne used the first years before and around the time of her first two albums, basically. For instance it can be seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=casdcfvTFdg (Marlene On The Wall - live from the Royal Albert Hall, London). I can add more links to other songs if you like.

It appears to be a full 17" jumbo. Note the simplistic inlays of the fretboard. Could this be mahogany b n' s?

hansmoust · Nov 12, 2007

sitka_spruce said:
I'm curious what Guild Suzanne used the first years before and around the time of her first two albums, basically. It appears to be a full 17" jumbo. Note the simplistic inlays of the fretboard. Could this be mahogany b n' s?

Hello sitka_spruce,

It's actually a bit smaller than that. It's one of the very few F-42s that were manufactured by Guild during the mid-'80s; 16" wide across the lower bout and yes, mahogany back & sides.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Graham · Nov 12, 2007

Thanks Hans.

sitka_spruce · Nov 12, 2007

hansmoust said:
sitka_spruce said:

I'm curious what Guild Suzanne used the first years before and around the time of her first two albums, basically. It appears to be a full 17" jumbo. Note the simplistic inlays of the fretboard. Could this be mahogany b n' s?

Click to expand...

Hello sitka_spruce,

It's actually a bit smaller than that. It's one of the very few F-42s that were manufactured by Guild during the mid-'80s; 16" wide across the lower bout and yes, mahogany back & sides.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

I always thought it looked so huge on her, but I suppose she isn't a very big lady in the straight physical sense. Thanx plentifull, Hans! F-42...? Since the basic Valencia model also is spruce over mahogany (from when they changed from maple to mahogany in the '50s), is there a way to tell which is which? The white-ish bindings?

Here she is again with a better close up on the axe (lovely burst, btw): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re1M7DmISns Hey, the position markers are not your ordinary MOP-dots, they're in the shape of diamonds.

Here the sound of it comes through better I think - sounds almost resophonic (not the best quality of the stream...) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re1M7DmISns Briefly another guitar, possibly by the size of a Valencia, is seen; one with floretine cutaway and possibly oval soundhole and no pickguard.

Obviously the links above are for reference only and does not infringe any copyrighted material.

hansmoust · Nov 13, 2007

sitka_spruce said:
Thanx plentifull, Hans! F-42...? Since the basic Valencia model also is spruce over mahogany (from when they changed from maple to mahogany in the '50s), is there a way to tell which is which? The white-ish bindings?

Hello sitka_spruce,

Not sure what basic Valencia model with mahogany back & sides you are referring to, but the giveaway for the F-42 would be the headstock shape and headstock logo. The fingerboard inlays would be another indication but you might not be able to see that from a distance.

Because of copyright laws I cannot post the complete photo but I would think I can get away with this:

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

sitka_spruce · Nov 13, 2007

hansmoust said:
sitka_spruce said:

Thanx plentifull, Hans! F-42...? Since the basic Valencia model also is spruce over mahogany (from when they changed from maple to mahogany in the '50s), is there a way to tell which is which? The white-ish bindings?

Click to expand...

Hello sitka_spruce,

Not sure what basic Valencia model with mahogany back & sides you are referring to, but the giveaway for the F-42 would be the headstock shape and headstock logo. The fingerboard inlays would be another indication but you might not be able to see that from a distance.

Because of copyright laws I cannot post the complete photo but I would think I can get away with this:

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Oh, I was thinking about the plain F40, the shape in which the first Valencia came, although it had arched maple deal when it was first introduced.

Thanx Hans!

hansmoust · Nov 13, 2007

sitka_spruce said:
Oh, I was thinking about the plain F40, the shape in which the first Valencia came, although it had arched maple deal when it was first introduced. Thanx Hans!

The F-40 was never (not counting the current models) released with mahogany back & sides. However the F-40 was followed up by the similar shaped F-47, which had mahogany back & sides. Both the F-40 and the F-47 can be recognized by their big square fingerboard inlays and (depending on the period) the Chesterfield headstock inlay.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

sitka_spruce · Nov 13, 2007

hansmoust said:
sitka_spruce said:

Oh, I was thinking about the plain F40, the shape in which the first Valencia came, although it had arched maple deal when it was first introduced. Thanx Hans!

Click to expand...

The F-40 was never (not counting the current models) released with mahogany back & sides. However the F-40 was followed up by the similar shaped F-47, which had mahogany back & sides. Both the F-40 and the F-47 can be recognized by their big square fingerboard inlays and (depending on the period) the Chesterfield headstock inlay.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Hans, knowing you're something of an authority on this I wouldn't question what you're saying if I didn't have grounds to do so.

You might have mixed up maple and mahogany in your post above. On the Guild site and in their catalogue it says the F30 and F40 when they first entered the scene (was it '54) featured the ubiquitous Guild maple sides and arched maple back (saw an eBay auction once for a late '50s F30 in maple). After a few years they changed into mahogany flatbacks and stayed that way.

If you want maple or RW, however not archback

, then there's the F47M and F47R. For what I know the F47 once could have featured mahogany as standard, a bit like an F40 upgrade model, or as an alternate tonewood but that is not how we know the model today.

capnjuan · Nov 13, 2007

hansmoust said:
Hello sitka_spruce, Not sure what basic Valencia model with mahogany back & sides you are referring to, but the giveaway for the F-42 would be the headstock shape and headstock logo. The fingerboard inlays would be another indication but you might not be able to see that from a distance. Because of copyright laws I cannot post the complete photo but I would think I can get away with this:Sincerely, Hans Moust http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Hi Hans; this is a picture of an earlier cousin?; 1973 F48 I guess derived from the '60s F47 'Bluegrass'? Per Blue Book of Acoustic Guitars; 1973 - 1975 17" body, spruce over mahogany; some including guitar in pic sold w/ Barcus Berry piezo pickups:

Anything noteworthy about this model? Thank you. cj

hansmoust · Nov 13, 2007

sitka_spruce said:
Hans, knowing you're something of an authority on this I wouldn't question what you're saying if I didn't have grounds to do so.

You might have mixed up maple and mahogany in your post above. On the Guild site and in their catalogue it says the F30 and F40 when they first entered the scene (was it '54) featured the inubixious Guild maple sides and arched maple back (saw an eBay auction once for a late '50s F30 in maple). After a few years they changed into mahogany flatbacks and stayed that way.

sitka_spruce,

No, I am not mixing up maple and mahogany. Just because it says that on the Guild site and in the catalog doesn't mean that's correct. There never was a mahogany F-40!
The F-30 changed to mahogany and stayed that way (for some time).

If you want maple or RW, however not archback , then there's the F47M and F47R. For what I know the F47 once could have featured mahogany as standard, a bit like an F40 upgrade model, or as an alternate tonewood but that is not how we know the model today.

The somewhat current F-47CE, F-47M-CE and F-47R-CE have nothing to do with the original F-47. They just carry a somewhat similar name but should not be considered similar models.
They are acoustic/electric/cutaway models.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

sitka_spruce · Nov 13, 2007

hansmoust said:
sitka_spruce said:

Hans, knowing you're something of an authority on this I wouldn't question what you're saying if I didn't have grounds to do so.

You might have mixed up maple and mahogany in your post above. On the Guild site and in their catalogue it says the F30 and F40 when they first entered the scene (was it '54) featured the inubixious Guild maple sides and arched maple back (saw an eBay auction once for a late '50s F30 in maple). After a few years they changed into mahogany flatbacks and stayed that way.

Click to expand...

sitka_spruce,

No, I am not mixing up maple and mahogany. Just because it says that on the Guild site and in the catalog doesn't mean that's correct. There never was a mahogany F-40!
The F-30 changed to mahogany and stayed that way (for some time).

If you want maple or RW, however not archback , then there's the F47M and F47R. For what I know the F47 once could have featured mahogany as standard, a bit like an F40 upgrade model, or as an alternate tonewood but that is not how we know the model today.

Click to expand...

The somewhat current F-47CE, F-47M-CE and F-47R-CE have nothing to do with the original F-47. They just carry a somewhat similar name but you should not be considered similar models.
They are acoustic/electric/cutaway models.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Thanx again, Hans. Sorry for seeming slow (probably didn't sleep too well last night), but what you're saying is Guild is inaccurate by making the statement the F-40 should be commonly known as a Sitka over mahogany 16" Jumbo? Curious what might have happened to the model... Did it meet with an early grave (in sitka over maple), only to be resurrected in latter years (in adirondack over mahogany)? :? :?:

The most highly current Tacoma F-47 models might just be a continuance of the somewhat current Corona F-47CE models, even if the Tacoma ones come non-cutaway and w/o electronics too. Even so I wouldn't doubt these guitars may only share the outline of the original F-47.

hansmoust · Nov 13, 2007

sitka_spruce said:
but what you're saying is Guild is inaccurate by making the statement the F-40 should be commonly known as a Sitka over mahogany 16" Jumbo? Curious what might have happened to the model... Did it meet with an early grave (in sitka over maple), only to be resurrected in latter years (in adirondack over mahogany)? :? :?:

Yes, they are wrong. The current catalog was written by marketing people who don't have the slightest idea!

The most highly current Tacoma F-47 models might just be a continuance of the somewhat current Corona F-47CE models, even if the Tacoma ones come non-cutaway and w/o electronics too. Even so I wouldn't doubt these guitars may only share the outline of the original F-47.

Maybe we shouldn't include the current models in this discussion since it's getting too confusing for the reader. Your original question was: F-42...? Since the basic Valencia model also is spruce over mahogany (from when they changed from maple to mahogany in the '50s), is there a way to tell which is which? The white-ish bindings? . You were referring to a guitar that Suzanne Vega was playing in 1986 ( or thereabouts). Hence, my answers/ remarks!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

hansmoust · Nov 13, 2007

capnjuan said:
Anything noteworthy about this model? Thank you. cj

The Guild Guitar Book , page 126.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

capnjuan · Nov 13, 2007

Thanks Hans; had already read that section - just didn't know if there was any other 'scoop' tied to this model.

Best wishes, cj

hansmoust · Nov 13, 2007

capnjuan said:
Thanks Hans; had already read that section - just didn't know if there was any other 'scoop' tied to this model.

Best wishes, cj

No not really. It didn't sell and consequently it's a rare guitar these days! However, I do think that a mahogany bodied 17" jumbo is a good idea!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

sitka_spruce · Nov 13, 2007

hansmoust said:
sitka_spruce said:

but what you're saying is Guild is inaccurate by making the statement the F-40 should be commonly known as a Sitka over mahogany 16" Jumbo? Curious what might have happened to the model... Did it meet with an early grave (in sitka over maple), only to be resurrected in latter years (in adirondack over mahogany)? :? :?:

Click to expand...

Yes, they are wrong. The current catalog was written by marketing people who don't have the slightest idea!

The most highly current Tacoma F-47 models might just be a continuance of the somewhat current Corona F-47CE models, even if the Tacoma ones come non-cutaway and w/o electronics too. Even so I wouldn't doubt these guitars may only share the outline of the original F-47.

Click to expand...

Maybe we shouldn't include the current models in this discussion since it's getting too confusing for the reader. Your original question was: F-42...? Since the basic Valencia model also is spruce over mahogany (from when they changed from maple to mahogany in the '50s), is there a way to tell which is which? The white-ish bindings? . You were referring to a guitar that Suzanne Vega was playing in 1986 ( or thereabouts). Hence, my answers/ remarks!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Obliged Hans. Yes, that was the original subject. Sorry for adding to the confusion. The more specs and designations that came up and was contradictory to what I've been told the messier this thread turned out. Guess I'll just have to re-learn and accept 'new realities' as a politician would have put it. Again, thanx!

capnjuan · Nov 13, 2007

hansmoust said:
No not really. It didn't sell and consequently it's a rare guitar these days! However, I do think that a mahogany bodied 17" jumbo is a good idea! Sincerely, Hans Moust http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Thank you Hans, me too!

Regards,
John

hansmoust · Nov 13, 2007

hansmoust said:
The current catalog was written by marketing people who don't have the slightest idea!

Don't want to beat a dead horse but:

Why would they call a model an F-40, when it has mahogany back & sides while the original F-40, that it was more or less modelled after, had maple back & sides?

Why would they call a model an F-47, when it has maple back & sides while the original F-47, that it was more or less modelled after, had mahogany back & sides?

Questions ........ questions!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

sitka_spruce · Nov 13, 2007

hansmoust said:
hansmoust said:

The current catalog was written by marketing people who don't have the slightest idea!

Click to expand...

Don't want to beat a dead horse but:

Why would they call a model an F-40, when it has mahogany back & sides while the original F-40, that it was more or less modelled after, had maple back & sides?

Why would they call a model an F-47, when it has maple back & sides while the original F-47, that it was more or less modelled after, had mahogany back & sides?

Questions ........ questions!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

One could, with that inclination, argue that what holds true for the F-30 Aragon could find legitimacy here as well, sort of. The F-30, I believe I can claim without chance of telling an untruth, did change from maple to mahogany.

Could it be such that maple today is a rather cheap tonewood, at the same time it shares some of the tonal properties with maple. That's why we find the more expensive tonewoods in the up class F-47.

To some value of trivia the GAD 40 is a maple bodied Valencia. I find this confusion about the Valencia so... what-ever-the-word I might start a new thread for sorting these untruths and matters of confusion out once and for all - if that ever could be done

hansmoust · Nov 13, 2007

sitka_spruce said:
Could it be such that maple today is a rather cheap tonewood, at the same time it shares some of the tonal properties with maple. That's why we find the more expensive tonewoods in the up class F-47.

Sorry, I can't follow that logic!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust

What Guild did Suzanne Vega use the first years?

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