d35 and d40 bluesgrass jubilee

gadgetfreak

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Hello I own a westerly D35 from 79 that I just picked up and now I see a 2007 D-40 Bluegrass Jubilee from Tacoma that interests me, would these two guitars have the same tone because the wood's are the same? I know the d-40 is a bit better of a build but spruce top and mahogany sounds like spruce top and mahogany to me, I'm new too acoustics and wonder if I should hold out for a different model Guild, or would these two have different of enough tones. Thanks
 

gadgetfreak

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Hi mod didn't mean too post twice, new here and didn't know I needed too wait for approval, feel free too delete one of these. They basically say the same thing
 

gadgetfreak

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Well I bought the D-40 Bluegrass Jubilee and it is amazing, sound's so bloody warm it's wonderful. I said to my son pinch me because I have never had an acoustic that play's this nice, I can just feel the quality and I'm so happy. Sound's fantastic plugged in as well, has the fishman prefix onboard w/tuner. Idk anything about acoustic/electric eq's and pickups but my ears tell me it sound's great. The action is phenomenal and i love the tortoise binding around the whole guitar, nice touch.

I posted because I was concerned with buying two acoustics made out of the same wood and if they would duplicate each other tone wise, I was so wrong. They don't sound at all like each other and the Jubilee just feels like a whole different level of guitar.I'm figuring out how to post pics and will post a couple. Too busy playing right now.
 
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charliea

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I'm no expert, but I think the BJ has an Adirondack top, while the 35 would have Sitka. Top woods make a big difference in sound, unlike bottom and side woods, so I'd expect they would sound pretty different.
 

dapmdave

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D-40s rock. Congratulations.

I have a 2009 D-40 Bluegrass Jubilee (very early New Hartford) and I love it. Wonderful tone.
 

adorshki

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I'm no expert, but I think the BJ has an Adirondack top, while the 35 would have Sitka. Top woods make a big difference in sound, unlike bottom and side woods, so I'd expect they would sound pretty different.

That's be correct, "Bluegrass" 's have Adirondack tops, also Adi bracing which is yet an additional influence on tone.
I'm mildly surprised you think it's "warmer" than a 20+ year old Westerly, since Adi is also reputed to be very "tight" sounding and needing a longer time to open up than sitka spruce.
Other variables might be top and bracing thickness on the D35, and even bracing design since there was a change in the bracing style in the early '80s, up by the neck block.
Also, Guilds seem to have been "built like tanks" at some periods, and "built very light" during others.
Even that characteristic isn't hard and fast since I've seen 'em described both ways for the same "era", particularly the late '70's. So some of that perception may well be subjective.
In fact, just for the sake of one more input, is one of the guitars noticably heavier than the other?
NH is reputed to be in the "lightweight build" category. Oh, by the way, welcome aboard!
:wink:
 

gadgetfreak

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Well I just got back the westerly D-35 today with the repairs done, there was a new bone nut cut, fret's dressed, I guess there were some over the body that lifted so they were fixed. The bridge was reglued and some new strings put on and the guitar setup for me. I was speechless, it had a couple dings that my luthier built up so you can hardly see them that were on the front and the frets are stunning.
The action at the 12th fret before I dropped the guitar off was really high, people talk about sliding quarters underneath, I could of slid a stack of them it was so high. Now the guitar play's wonderful and sound's so much better, really loud and projects wells but I can play her softly and responds to my touch which is a beautiful thing.

I still say the D-40 has a very warm sound to it but so does the D-35 but they sound different. Now that both are setup for my playing I couldn't say one was warmer or brighter, they are just different but trust me when I say the jubilee is warm it's really been played since 2007. That was the date of the build, I think the westerly D-35 has a unique tone all her own. I took pics I don't have the best camera but they get the image across, I will try and get them up when I wake up, it's too late right now. I happened to see a post shutting down computer and wanted to respond. I made the comment of the d-40 being the best I've had before I got the d-35 back, now I just want them all:)

Oh as far as weight the D-35 would be one built like a tank, that guitar is definitely not on the light side. They weigh about the same and the Jubilee has electronics built in and grover tuners which seem heavier. The westerly is a very good example and i really can't wait to get some pics up, today I promise
 
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gadgetfreak

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Pics of the Guild D-35 1979, I will post my 2007 Bluegrass Jubilee D-40 tomorrow.

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I am going to see if I can use my buddies camera, and redo these
 
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I would not be at all surprised to hear that a new-era D-40 sounds different (and if it were my ears, better) than a 70s example. Starting around 1970, Guilds got heavier, with thicker finishes, and their voices (again, to my ears) changed for the worse. It has less to do with the woods used than with other aspects of the build formula*, which Fender has been changing since acquiring the company, and especially after production moved to Tacoma. I've been playing Guilds since the mid-sixties, both the dozen or so I've owned and the many dozens I've played in stores or at jams, and the post-Corona samples I've encountered sound like the instruments I played before 1970. My prediction about a 70s/current D-family comparison is that the 70s voice is more compressed and perhaps a bit nasal, maybe even shading over into brassy. The current models I've played have a fatter, more balanced sound, ranging into sweet, but still with a bit of Guild nasality. Which, by the way, is what my 1965 D-40 sounds like right now.

*Most of the builders I've talked to--and when I was doing music journalism, I talked to a lot of them--have told me that wood variety is only a part of the formula that determines sound. It does matter, but the differences are often subtle, and I have been told by more than one luthier that two instruments with tops taken from the same flitch of wood can sound quite distinct. That's why voicing a top is such a tricky art, involving thickness, taper, and fiddling with the braces. A builder friend made three as-close-to-identical-as-possible examples with walnut, mahogany, and rosewood back/sides, and they did have distinct voices. But they were more like each other than the other nine instruments from that batch, which featured different body sizes and bracing patterns. I played all of them and bought the rosewood. Later I had the walnut example on loan for a couple months, and found it so close to the rosewood that I would been happy to keep it. Now, my friend had controlled as many variables as he could and paid particular attention to detail. No factory-built guitar is going to get that kind of attention, and the result is a much greater instrument-to-instrument variability within a particular sound-and-feel envelope--which is why Guilds tend to sound like Guilds and not Martins or Gibsons. But even the characteristic sound of a brand is going to fall into a range.
 

valleyguy

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The bluegrass models made in Tacoma (D40 and D50) are fabulous sounding instruments, unlike most sitka dreds I've played. Surprisingly the D40 and D50 are very similarly sounding. The adirondack top and braces give them a very defined sound, that is each string is very distinct, great for leads and flatpicking.

Here's my favorite example of one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Lkg7GsKQQ
 

charliea

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I would not be at all surprised to hear that a new-era D-40 sounds different (and if it were my ears, better) than a 70s example. Starting around 1970, Guilds got heavier, with thicker finishes, and their voices (again, to my ears) changed for the worse. It has less to do with the woods used than with other aspects of the build formula*, which Fender has been changing since acquiring the company, and especially after production moved to Tacoma. I've been playing Guilds since the mid-sixties, both the dozen or so I've owned and the many dozens I've played in stores or at jams, and the post-Corona samples I've encountered sound like the instruments I played before 1970. My prediction about a 70s/current D-family comparison is that the 70s voice is more compressed and perhaps a bit nasal, maybe even shading over into brassy. The current models I've played have a fatter, more balanced sound, ranging into sweet, but still with a bit of Guild nasality. Which, by the way, is what my 1965 D-40 sounds like right now.

Recent production Guilds, the 12's at least, are noticeably lighter and more responsive than their Westerly brethren. Not knocking Westerly guitars, which were certainly built to last, but the NH guitars have IMO a better sound.
 

adorshki

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... but I can play her softly and responds to my touch which is a beautiful thing.
My D25's like that. :smile:
I still say the D-40 has a very warm sound to it but so does the D-35 but they sound different. Now that both are setup for my playing I couldn't say one was warmer or brighter, they are just different but trust me when I say the jubilee is warm it's really been played since 2007.
Ah, it's had some break-in time then. And yeah I would expect them to actually sound pretty similar but with their own nuances. I wouldn't think there'd really be a huge tone difference between sitka and adi, I'd expect it to be kind of subtle. :wink:
Thanks for that "weight update". :wink:
 

gadgetfreak

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I have to agree my D-35 has a lot of midrange voice and brassy could be the word of the day:)but there is still a lot of warmth in there, it's not ice pick brassy but it could be the brand new strings. I read your post and it's quite interesting about how they changed the builds back then,the 35 is definitely got some weight.
I have played all day and the strings I'm using are just regular old martin 80/20's. I know the last set of strings I had on the guitar was definitely warmer but that was before the work i had done. I would have to say it's too early to really give descriptions on how this girl sound's but it's quite nice in any case. Very loud if need be but I have been playing more relaxed and achieving wonderful overtones, I don't have a way to record and upload something yet but when I do I will post something.
My Jubilee is really a much sweeter,warmer guitar with just better build quality imo. Even after my Luthier went to town on this D-35 and made the guitar so it's like brand new I can just feel a difference in the necks and the tightness of the guitar. Don't get me wrong I love them both and I'm becoming a real Guild freak, I now want this D-55 on my Local c.l.
I've been playing electrics so long and lately I've been feeling the need to just buckle down with an acoustic, it's wonderful. Thanks for all your comments. I'm learning something new everyday

I found this video, My Jubilee sounds very similiar to this guy's, I know playing style and strings are different but when I hear this guitar it really reminds me of mine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu9ofp2r_Q4
 
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adorshki

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I have to agree my D-35 has a lot of midrange voice and brassy could be the word of the day:)but there is still a lot of warmth in there, it's not ice pick brassy but it could be the brand new strings.
80/20's always sounded brassier than PB to me and the Martin variety felt like it had higher tension/less flexibility at pitch, as well. But they should mellow out a little after a couple of hours in any case.
I read your post and it's quite interesting about how they changed the builds back then,the 35 is definitely got some weight.
Yeah Russ did a wonderful job of a "nutshell" summary of the changes over time, and a GREAT definition of what a complete "formula" really is: wood and construction details. Even things like the size and weight of the headstock seem to have their own subtle effects, we've even dicussed that here before.
Interestingly, I've always felt that my '96 D25 (early Fender era) is a "featherweight", for sure it's the lightest guitar I ever owned, but others feel their D25's are pretty heavy due to the arched back. (Supposedly the glue in a laminated back is heavier than the wood but I still think there's more to it, such as the relative thicknesses of the slabs themseleves [or sheets] used for each type of back). I've also wondered if (purely by chance) my '25 might have received a "DV" series neck which were supposed to be specially selected for lightness/strength. Like maybe they had some leftovers when they started a batch of D25's and I got lucky...it's definitely got a real skinny neck which was another area of significant variation over the years...especially since all Westerly necks were individually finished by hand on a belt sander. NH's are largely built with NC machined components and are supposed to be vastly more consistent from instrument to instrument.
Like Russ observed, my Corona D40 is a tank for sure, definitely outweighs the D25 but it does have a UST and endpin jack so that might be extra ounces like your D40. It's also got a massive bridge compared to the other two, a full 1/8" thicker. And a thick neck, and what's known as a paddle style headstock (like both of yours) whereas the D25 has what's been called a "snakehead", it's narrower at the top. ( A late '80's introduction)
What's interesting between these two is the difference in sound between an archback and a flatback of the same wood formulas. I always considered the D40 to be the sonic runt in the family, it just never sustained like the '25. Only recently did it start developing some real "punch". The real reason I bought it was 'cause it's a Havens signature model and at the time (early '04) I thought Fender might be just about to make Guild one of their completely foreign-built brands. Thought I better get one of the last ones while I could.
I'm a USA made loyalist but not a purist. :wink:
 
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gadgetfreak

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Hi all I have a question I am trying to figure out if the Fishman Prefix in my Jubilee is stock or did somebody put it in. The guitar is a 2007 Tacoma so I don't even know where to begin to find this out. Inside the case I have all the manuals from Fishman and Guild so it looks like it would be stock but I don't ever see any other Guild D-40 Jubilee's with the Fishman installed on the top side like mine is. Anyone have a clue?
 

valleyguy

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the Tacoma's had the Dtar lock n load as the factory install.. I would suspect that a Fishman would be aftermarket.
 

gadgetfreak

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thanks for that information, Kind of bummed that somebody cut into the guitar like that but it's a really pro job. I just see other jubilees that aren't missing a big ole chunk of wood on the side. I wonder if that hurts the tone, to me this guitar sound's great and better than my other two acoustics but I have to wonder what she sounded like originally without the Fishman. If it were me I would of added a less invasive pickup to a nice guitar like this. What do I know.

Thanks on the D-35, I'm so tired right now but I will post some proper pics of both when I get some time, I just noticed I never even posted a pic of the Jubilee, I mean it's not like it's something nobodies seen before, but she does have a lovely grain in the red spruce top.
 
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valleyguy

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A lot of people complain about the hole cutout for the controls of a Fishman. THough myD50 doesn't have one, I certainly would not be bothered to have it. It makes accessing the controls and battery much easier. Plus, if I recall, it has a tuner, which would be nice to have built-in. I'm pretty sure they don't affect the sound, or that info would have been disseminated by now. Enjoy it....
 

gadgetfreak

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Well yes all the pros of the Fishman are great of course, Love the tuner. I was just bummed it wasn't stock anymore, I haven't played it plugged in but one time. I think a K&K would of been more than adequate for me, but I agree on the tone portion... I do believe I would of heard lot's of complaints, and not just on this guitar but any guitar they cut a big chunk out if people were having issue's or losing resonance or sound. Thanks
 
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