BiSonic pickup reference thread

[Harp Tail]

Thank you Harp Tail for the pointer to a Reverb sale of a modified Pilot bass with a Newark Street Guild BS-1 neck pickup (and a Seymour Duncan bridge pickup). Below are the pictures from the original ad. My (Chazmo's) goal is to provide a reference thread for BiSonic pickups here which comprises relevant, informational posts about the BiSonic history. The posts here are culled from the discussion. Please feel free to add or edit in any additional information you want to preserve.

 

[twocorgis]

. . .
The Duncan is not OEM, but is a nice pickup. I can't say the same about the BS-1 pickup though. Them, and the neck dive was the reason I sold my GSR M85II.

 

[twocorgis]

Maybe I just got a bad set, but the BS-1s that were in my M85 II sounded kind of lifeless, especially compared to the delicious hotness of the Dark Stars in My DeArmond Starfire.

 

[chazmo]

Forgive my ignorance, Sandy, and set me straight on this, but isn't one version of the Dark Stars re-configurable as a BiSonic? . . . I take it these recent, Korean-made BS-1s are *not* those, right? . . .

 

[twocorgis]

The set [ of Dark Stars ] that I have (thanks to Ingo) sound by far the best of any of the Bisonic type pickups I've heard (even the vintage set that's in Greenie), even though the bridge pickup poles don't line up quite right. When I bought the Dark Star from him, and bought the one that he pointed me to on eBay, he recommended getting them wax potted. I have a friend who is a pickup builder who does things like that, and brought them to him, and Bobby even remaked about how well made the pickups were. And that's not faint praise coming from him.

And yes, the Dark Stars (which haven't been made in quite some time) and the Curtis Novak clone are definitely not anything like the Korean made BS-1 from Guild. I think the main problem with Guild's pup is that they probably didn't use a great example to reverse engineer when they released them. This seems to be the case with the weak bridge pickup on the Newark Street Starfire guitars, and others that use that pickup, although I have no first hand experience with them.

 

[mellowgerman]

@chazmo Sounds to me like you're thinking of the Novak BS/DS pickup, that is sold with the optional upgrade of a coil tap, which cuts down on the windings of the "vintage" spec coil, to make it closer to a "Dark Star" coil. That said, I've found the description of the full coil as "vintage" spec to be slightly misleading. Both of my 1970 Guild basses have original, unmodified Hagstrom Bisonics that read just over 8k resistance. Also, the neck pickup of my M85-II only has 1 bar magnet, whereas the bridge pickup has 2. The 1970 Starfire was originally just a neck-pickup-only SFB-I and that neck position bisonic had 2 magnets! I believe Novak winds his "vintage" spec coil to over 12k and all of his have 2 magnets. Either way, great pickups, but worth noting that vintage Bisonic pickups did see a variety of different configurations and specs, depending on the era they were made in and possibly also model-specific.

The one in this pilot is the import Bisonic (at least assuming it is named correctly in the description) from the Newark Street series instruments. The GSR instruments got them too, but I believe that was prior to the actual release of the NS series instruments, so I've often wondered if the pickup underwent any changes in between the two. In any case, the NS Bisonic pickup is not a bad pickup, but quite different from the Dark Stars and Novaks they resemble, as Sandy has pointed out already.

 

[fronobulax]

On this bass the BS-1 replaced the neck position P style PU on the Pilot which was not a neck pickup in the sense that it was right up against the fingerboard to begin with.

Bisonic options include:

• "vintage" made by Hagstrom
• Darkstar made by Fred Hammom
• BSDS made by Curtis Novak which can be wound to the vintage spec, the Darkstar spec or with a coil tap to toggle between the specs.
• BS-1 sold by Guild (made by ?) and used primarily on Newark Street instruments.

There were a couple of attempts by others to make a Bisonic but they never seem to have been widely used or available.

Lots of discussion about which is "best" but there is general agreement that the BS-1 is worst. It's not a bad pickup by any means but swapping with any of the others is usually considered an upgrade. Nuanced comparisons should note there is a difference between putting one in a hollow or semi-hollow body bass and in a solid body bass.

 

[fronobulax]

[ Regarding twocorgis' comment about a potentially bad or weak example being copied to create the BS-1 ]:

This is the first time I have heard the claim that the BS-1 bass PU was reverse engineered from a bad sample. That doesn't mean the claim is wrong but I does mean my memory is shot or it wasn't discussed publicly.

 

[twocorgis]

I don't know that for a fact, I just know that the set in my GSR M85II were not commensurate with the price of that guitar. They sounded kinda dull to me.

 

[Default]

I knew about the mismatch LB-1 in the Starfire guitars, but I had no idea that the bass pickup was also base on a "not to spec" example.

I don't know too about the Bisonics, fwiw. I've been meaning to pick up a reissue, after futzing with that one awhile back, but work has been kicking my butt this year.

 

[Harp Tail]

On this bass the BS-1 replaced the neck position P style PU on the Pilot which was not a neck pickup in the sense that it was right up against the fingerboard to begin with.

Bisonic options include:

• "vintage" made by Hagstrom
• Darkstar made by Fred Hammom
• BSDS made by Curtis Novak which can be wound to the vintage spec, the Darkstar spec or with a coil tap to toggle between the specs.
• BS-1 sold by Guild (made by ?) and used primarily on Newark Street instruments.

There were a couple of attempts by others to make a Bisonic but they never seem to have been widely used or available.

Lots of discussion about which is "best" but there is general agreement that the BS-1 is worst. It's not a bad pickup by any means but swapping with any of the others is usually considered an upgrade. Nuanced comparisons should note there is a difference between putting one in a hollow or semi-hollow body bass and in a solid body bass.

The current BS-1 should be made by BHS (BooHeung) in Korea.

I personally find them nice but only tried them in my hollow-body SF-II bass. Low output but credible tones (I have no experience with vintage BS-1)

 

[lungimsam]

I like my BS-1 neck pups in both my NS Starfires.

I should point out that I have never heard a Dark Star/Novak/HagstrÜm bionic live before. So I have nothing to compare mine to.
All I know is my BS-1's sound great at home and even run DI drives the subs and sound in the auditorium I play at explosively. Of course, the sound guys are responsible for that end of it I guess.

I'm so curious about the fabled Hagstrüm Bisonic and look forward to hearing one sometime at a LTG get together, if it ever happens.

 

[Harp Tail]

I like my BS-1 neck pups in both my NS Starfires.
Never heard a dark star or Novak in person.

Neither have I, and actually bought two BS-1 from Guild for a project

 

[lungimsam]

I routed my SF1 and put a neck RWRP BS-1 in the neck position and the bass is one of my best sounding basses now.
I liked it so much even put the same neck model RWRP BS-1 on my Gibson bass which was a great improvement over their splittable humbucker (though the bass has no need for RWRP since it only has one pup anyway).

Now bridge BS-1 is a different story for me:
In my Cordoba 2017 Starfire bass it’s bridge pup sounds great but in my FMIC 2013 , the bridge pup always sounded a bit dull and dead. Don't know if Cordoba changed anything or not.

 

[Harp Tail]

. . .
I believe my Starfire bass is also a 2017 and in my opinion those Korean BS-1 sound convincing, but don't doubt the Novak and Fred Hammon might convince even more.

 

[twocorgis]

. . .
I believe my Starfire bass is also a 2017 and in my opinion those Korean BS-1 sound convincing, but don't doubt the Novak and Fred Hammon might convince even more.

In my somewhat limited experience, the Dark Stars sound best to me, but I don't have much experience with the Novaks.

 

[fronobulax]

. . .
The previous discussions about the BS-1 have been pretty nuanced. It is a good pickup, especially in a universe of P and J bass clones. But it has a clear upgrade path. Whether the upgrade is important is a matter of personal preference. . . .

Every post I can recall that is negative or non-positive about the BS-1 was made by someone who had hands on experience with a vintage Bisonic, a Hammon Darkstar or one of the Novak variants. . . .

 

[mavuser]

The Guild BS-1 is a decent pickup. It is actually a Hammon Dark Star tribute pickup, and not a Hagstrom Bisonic tribute. (but is not a true clone of either one).

See here, from Guild:

Th BS-1 can be dialed in to a sweet spot or 2, between amp settings and tone knob. I had a pair of them on my GSR M-85-II, and they were certainly serviceable. I did have prior experience with vitnage Hagstrom Bisonics, on vintage SF basses (and a couple JS/Jetstars), and the reissue does not sound quite like those, but it still sounds pretty good.

I decided ultimately to upgrade to a pair of Novak BS/DS switchable pickups on the M-85, and it did make a world of difference. Novak's Bisonic and Dark Star tones sound as good, or possibly better, than the originals, to me...with zero unwanted noise. He really nailed it! Novak's pickups are (noiseless) clones of the originals, where the Guild BS-1...somehow is not. They must have used different type magnets, windings/coils, etc.

@fronobulax is the only one I am aware of, that still owns both a vintage Hoboken SF-1 bass with Hagstrom Bosonic, as well as a Newark Street SF-1 bass with Guild BS-1. The pickups are in different positions, but the basses are otherwise an original, and a reissue of the original. Perhaps his opinion on the BS-1 is worth the most, to anyone seeking such an opinion.

Serek uses the Guild BS-1, as well as the Novak, in his solid body basses. I've only seem some videos online, but those videos, together with my personal experience, leads me to the hypothesis that the Guild BS-1 has potential to be a really good pickup in a solid body bass. whereas a Bisonic (Hagstrom or Novak) really wants to be in a hollow or semi hollow bass. The Dark Stars (Hammon or Novak) seem to shine in both scenarios. The Dark Star is like a "Bisonic that identifies as an Alembic," or something like that.

Guild did a very good job on the BS-1, for a mass produced, $99 pickup. It is giggable, for sure. The Novak however, takes you straight to the top. total game changer

 

[RVBASS]

Here is an interesting interview with Jack Casady where he talks about his modifications to Guild Bisonic pickups and other basses…

Jack Casady: Guild Starfires and custom Guild V bass >> FlyGuitars

Fly Guitars Interview: Jack Casady - part 3: Jack Casady's association with Guild guitars is well known; Jack talks about his Guild Starfire and Custom Guild V basses

www.flyguitars.com

 

[RVBASS]

For reference, Curtis Novak provided the following information when I inquired about wiring his BS-DS pickups for two separate push-pull tone controls:

Wire color code for both pickups:
South Coil Black=Start; White=End.
North Coil Green=Start; Red=End.

Neck Pickup:
Tie Red and White wires together.
Send Green to ground and Black to hot.
Send Red and White to the switch that will do the coil tap.

Depending on if you send it to hot or ground will determine which coil
is active.