Differences Between the 70's F512's and Modern Days F512?

[rich johnson]

John Denver made the Guild F512 pretty famous in the 70's. Any differences between the 70's, 80's F512's and Modern Days F512 say ?

 

[ReevesRd]

Looking at the catalogs on GAD's site https://www.gad.net/Blog/guild-guitar-catalogs/ I don't see any differences between the 1970's and the 1980's F-512s. Maybe a sunburst finish was offered in the 80s. Modern Day F-512 can have maple back and sides (F-412).

 

[twocorgis]

John Denver made the Guild F512 pretty famous in the 70's. Any differences between the 70's, 80's F512's and Modern Days F512 say ?

The biggest change to F512s occurred some time in the later Tacoma years, with the switch to a single truss rod with carbon fibre stiffeners, which resulted in a slimmer neck profile and a more stable neck, in my experience. Also, manufacturing changes implemented in New Hartford CT resulted in much better binding work around the headstock, along with lighter open back tuners, and it really is noticeable if you compare them side by side.

 

[chazmo]

Hey, Rich,

FYI, JD played an F-612 in some of his most famous clips, especially for "Bells of Rhymney," which I've posted many times around here. The F-612 is all but unobtainable these days. But, I think he did have an F-512 too. Not sure.

To answer your question, I've played many, many, many F-512s over the last 15 years since I bought mine, and they are ALL great. There is no era that's going to get you into sonic trouble. If there's anything to notice, I'd say the 1980s F-512s are the slightest bit darker in tone than the modern ones. I think that could be attributable to the weight savings and shallower bodes that the recent models (since Tacoma-era that is) have undertaken. But, if there's anything to that, it's extremely subtle...

 

[twocorgis]

Hey, Rich,

FYI, JD played an F-612 in some of his most famous clips, especially for "Bells of Rhymney," which I've posted many times around here. The F-612 is all but unobtainable these days. But, I think he did have an F-512 too. Not sure.

To answer your question, I've played many, many, many F-512s over the last 15 years since I bought mine, and they are ALL great. There is no era that's going to get you into sonic trouble. If there's anything to notice, I'd say the 1980s F-512s are the slightest bit darker in tone than the modern ones. I think that could be attributable to the weight savings and shallower bodes that the recent models (since Tacoma-era that is) have undertaken. But, if there's anything to that, it's extremely subtle...

I'll also add that it was @chazmo's excellent Tacoma F512 that set the hook with me when I played it at the first LMG back in 2010. They really are the top of the heap when it comes to 12 strings.

 

[GGJaguar]

The more recent examples are also built much lighter. My 2019 Oxnard-made F-412 is 1.1 lb lighter than my 2003 Corona-made F-412.

 

[chazmo]

the top of the heap

Sadly, with 12 strings, that's what you find a lot of times... Heaps in closets.

In all seriousness, @rich johnson , if you're really on the quest to get a 12er, make SURE it plays like butter and/or you have a luthier who can make it that way for you. I don't want to find any Guild 12strings in your closet next year!!!

 

[rich johnson]

The biggest change to F512s occurred some time in the later Tacoma years, with the switch to a single truss rod with carbon fibre stiffeners, which resulted in a slimmer neck profile and a more stable neck, in my experience. Also, manufacturing changes implemented in New Hartford CT resulted in much better binding work around the headstock, along with lighter open back tuners, and it really is noticeable if you compare them side by side.

thanks, weight doesn't bother me and I want the larger neck profiles..

 

[rich johnson]

how big the difference in these 212, 412 & 512 between the three woods?

 

[Greg1233]

I can't help much comparing F512's of the 70's to the 80's but i can add some interesting details of the early 70's models. I bought a new F512 in 1973, picked it up at the RI factory, got the dealer tour (from Jim Duerloo if I remember correctly). Kept looking for an older one with the fancy fingerboard inlays and finally found a used 1972 model. Not sure what happened between 1972 and 1973 but they are very different guitars. Differences include the following:

Fingerboard on 72 has the F612 style inlays, 73 has the typical 3 piece pearl / abalone blocks with the double stripes on each side
Bridge on the 72 is the older large shaped brazilian rosewood with slotted diamond inlays on the wings, 73 bridge is the smaller shaped standard ebony with no inlays.
Neck shape on the 72 is a bit thinner than the 73
The 72 model is noticeably lighter than the 73, construction seems more hand-built than the 73, just not as clean, not as 'factory' built
Pickguard on the 72 is tortoise colored, pick guard on the 73 is black
Unfortunately 1972 was a few years too late for brazilian back and sides by a couple years, both are EI
Both have Grover Rotomatics, three piece necks, similar binding and back center strip
Same size peghead and same inlays

Maybe Hans can comment on what was going on at the factory in those years to result such a difference between years. As I'm getting older I want to sell a few guitars and seems like selling one of the F512's would be an easy decision. Problem is the 72 is just too cool to sell but the 73 sounds better, so for now they both stay.

 

[Greg1233]

Speaking of John Denver's guitars, I don't think he ever had an F512. The guitar in the early photos looks like an F-412 Special as shown on page 109 in Hans' book. I think he went from that guitar directly to the F612.

 

[rich johnson]

I can't help much comparing F512's of the 70's to the 80's but i can add some interesting details of the early 70's models. I bought a new F512 in 1973, picked it up at the RI factory, got the dealer tour (from Jim Duerloo if I remember correctly). Kept looking for an older one with the fancy fingerboard inlays and finally found a used 1972 model. Not sure what happened between 1972 and 1973 but they are very different guitars. Differences include the following:

Fingerboard on 72 has the F612 style inlays, 73 has the typical 3 piece pearl / abalone blocks with the double stripes on each side
Bridge on the 72 is the older large shaped brazilian rosewood with slotted diamond inlays on the wings, 73 bridge is the smaller shaped standard ebony with no inlays.
Neck shape on the 72 is a bit thinner than the 73
The 72 model is noticeably lighter than the 73, construction seems more hand-built than the 73, just not as clean, not as 'factory' built
Pickguard on the 72 is tortoise colored, pick guard on the 73 is black
Unfortunately 1972 was a few years too late for brazilian back and sides by a couple years, both are EI
Both have Grover Rotomatics, three piece necks, similar binding and back center strip
Same size peghead and same inlays

Maybe Hans can comment on what was going on at the factory in those years to result such a difference between years. As I'm getting older I want to sell a few guitars and seems like selling one of the F512's would be an easy decision. Problem is the 72 is just too cool to sell but the 73 sounds better, so for now they both stay.

I'll take the larger neck profile

 

[chazmo]

Indeed, Yura. Bracing changes can have a huge impact on sound quality.

details of this brace change discussion have been moved to the following thread:

New bracing techniques in Oxnard

From what I understand, when Ren Ferguson took charge in 2016 over Oxnard (VP of manufacturing and R&D), they've redesigned all USA Guild bracing (from D-20 and up to F-512). There are those distinguished "peak" bracings seen near soundhole in F-512 (pics attached). Here is his quote : "THE...

letstalkguild.com

 

[Brad Little]

....Fingerboard on 72 has the F612 style inlays, 73 has the typical 3 piece pearl / abalone blocks with the double stripes on each side....

I think the 512 with 612 inlay has been discussed here before and, IIRC, the consensus was that it was either a special order or an aftermarket addition. Could be wrong, I have been before!

 

[awagner]

I think the 512 with 612 inlay has been discussed here before and, IIRC, the consensus was that it was either a special order or an aftermarket addition. Could be wrong, I have been before!

The term "F612 inlays" is actually an incorrect designation, as they were the standard inlays of the early F512s, which were produced prior to the introduction of the F612. These inlays also appeared on some other models in the late '60s.

 

[rich johnson]

all good info thanks

 

[GGJaguar]

I like the tortoise purfling in the middle of the rosette.

 

[rich johnson]

how did we get to D40's and pyramid braces on a thread asking about 512's? WTF?

 

[davenumber2]

Threads around here and other forums tend to evolve (devolve?) the longer they go on. Part of the charm.

 

[rich johnson]

Threads around here and other forums tend to evolve (devolve?) the longer they go on. Part of the charm.