Just bought a vintage 1972 D35 "Project"

[LateStart]

Belly Dancer

Yep. Something in there needs love. I just watched this video: Scott LaJoie repairs a bellied acoustic guitar.

Guitar probably got exposed to heat at some point. I will inspect when I get access to my inspection mirror. I felt around inside the guitar and everything seems tight, but visual inspection will be the true test.

Looks doable if you have the right tools and patience. Since I have to replace the bridge/saddle anyway, this falls into the category of "while you are at it" type work. Watching the video of the JLD bridge doctor looks interesting, but I would only do the version for vintage guitars where no extra holes are drilled. Scott LaJoie installs a JLD Bridge Doctor. Does it work if you remove it after the bulge is corrected?

Comments?

 

[LateStart]

Bridge over troubled spruce...

Let the love begin:

1) Removed bridge and installed NOS bridge today. My good friend had one in stock.
2) Created a new bone saddle.
3) Clamped the body so as to flatten out the "bellying" -- top is now much closer to flat.

Have to wait a few days for everything to dry, then we will be able to give it a trip around the block... Neck angle is 'decent' the saddle had to be fairly low. Will revisit the neck reset issue after we see how things go...

[/url]IMG_2524 by 1686[/IMG]

 

[SFIV1967]

Clamped the body so as to flatten out the "bellying" -- top is now much closer to flat.

Can you give some hints how exactly you "flattened" the top? Especially how would this happen so quickly? Just curious.
Ralf

 

[LateStart]

Well the picture above doesn't tell the whole story. We made a block of work about the size of the sound plate for the inside. There were multiple clamps on the bridge and the top; turned down tight for a few hours.

The top is somewhat thin and it was moveable once the strings were de-tensioned and the plates/clamps were applied. The old cracked bridge was not holding anything into place. It is clear there was a prior, not well-executed attempt at bridge repair. The belly I am guessing was partially a result of poorly managed tension from the bridge - it was not distributed to the places without glue, so more was on the glued spots. With even attachment of a new bridge, hopefully will be better. It also looks like the old bridge had been shaved from the bottom, it was thin which probably contributed to it breaking. Hard to know what was done in the past 40 years.

I won't know exactly how much success we have had until it is all re-strung. The internal structure was good, the braces were attached. Waiting a few days for full cure of the wood. So more to report later.

There is probably a neck reset in the future of this guitar at some point. The neck angle with the new bridge looks like the saddle will need to be low-ish, but should be enough for a decent break on the strings.

If I keep the guitar, it may be a candidate for a top replacement in a few years. The top was a little thin under the bridge - I might be on the lookout for a vintage parts guitar with a great top (if anyone has one, PM me).

If this all works and sounds good, I am going to do work to improve the cosmetics -- there are multiple places on the top that could be lightly resurfaced and recoated, particularly around the bridge.

Remember it's a project guitar, it won't be and isn't expected to be 'perfect', just needs to sound great! I had a great time working on it and it was low risk since I don't have too much invested yet.

 

[Neal]

I have had a JDL Bridge Doctor in my '73 D-35 for several years now. I have resisted the temptation to remove it, because the guitar sounds so resonant with it in there.

My luthier can't believe the the JDL actually improved the tone, and his reasoning is sound, given that the device works by forcing the rear of the bridge down via a dowel pressing against the sole plate should, which theoretically should reduce soundboard vibration.

But my ears tell me otherwise in this particular instance.

Neal

 

[LateStart]

Can you post pictures? I am very much thinking about this. Did you use the standard or the vintage version? Given that the top seems somewhat weak already, I am inclined to do it and the part is not expensive so it is consistent with my "project" approach. Thanks for bringing this up.

 

[SFIV1967]

All (!) original design Breedlove guitars were shipped from the factory via a JLD Bridge Truss System, see:



And: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h48g4iu8o0Y

Ralf

 

[LateStart]

I saw that video when I did a web search a few days ago. I don't have any problem with the idea that it should work, but I am very hesitant to drill a hole in the "hard to replace" Guild bridge. The vintage version looks more appealing but I don't know how well it works comparatively. Reviews on experience welcome.

 

[SFIV1967]

I don't really think there is any difference in function between the above shown screw mount ("Bridge System" 3694) and the more vintage brass pin mount version ("Bridge Doctor" 3695)!

I probably would not like the look of those brass pins in the 3695 version...I rather would use the one screw version (3694) and the original bridge pins and close it with a rosewood or ebony cap, that way it is invisible (using some Teflon below on top of the screw, so you could get access to the screw if needed).

Ralf

 

[LateStart]

Just Wow... Just out of the ER and looking good...

So I gave the bridge 48 hours to set and strung it up tonight.. What a great noise. I know it needs time to come together fully, but with a temporary saddle and new strings it just sounded incredible. Played alongside a D35 Martin of the same vintage it projected more and had a bigger, fuller sound. Some might say 'different' but I really thought it sounded better. Even with a lowish saddle the action is higher than I would like, but playable. Don't think the TR is going to help on this one, may play for a bit and then deal with the neck.

For now the belly is gone. I will likely order the JLD to keep things stable over the long haul. The top was a little thin under the bridge when I replaced it; I moved it forward a bit to get the proper alignment. The intonation is very good at the 12th fret on all but low E and I can do a little adjusting on the final saddle to bring it inline.

A few pictures below of the resurrected d35. The cosmetic work will start next week. Now that we know she's a player, got to make her look as good as possible given the circumstances.

In about 10 days I am going to start a new thread about the late 60's D-50 I found/bought on CL this week. It's not here yet but one picture below as a teaser...

D35: New Old Stock Bridge, moved up just a little, temporary plastic test saddle:


D35: Belly-b-mostly-gone:

Coming on UPS soon D50... not ready to show her face yet...:beguiled:

 

[mutantmoose]

I've dealt with that sharp low E string in a somewhat different way, which only works if you aren't going to use an under-saddle pickup on the guitar.

http://summergarageluthier.blogspot.com/2012/11/solving-sharp-intonation-on-6th-string.html

Looks crazy, works very, very well.

 

[LateStart]

That's creative...and it makes sense why it would work - plus it is cleanly reversible. Was the goal to avoid moving the bridge?

I am a beginner, so it's not clear to me how it could be that far out on just *one* string - can you elaborate? This would also eliminate the ability to use the 'vintage' bridge doctor too, right?

 

[mutantmoose]

It's that far out on that one string because I use medium strings, and they are just bigger, thicker, and need more length!
The goal was to fix the intonation without altering the tone. I like the tone already, and replacing the bridge just doesn't seem like a good fix. Plus then I have to plug the holes, make new ones, and then if I ever switch to light strings, then I have to go back - it's just silly.
All the strings are slightly off, but that E was just terrible, as it is on many guitars. We did the same thing to a friends Martin D-42. And that is completely crazy to me - a $4,000 should intonate correctly, right? Oh no, let's not change a thing, let's keep the exact same design and not change a thing, it keeps the vintage people happy.
Thing is, that low E is also the one we tend to pull sharp the most, due to where our fingers stretch from. So it is really easy to be grossly out of tune. This fix is super simple, and a great conversation starter. ("What the hell did you do to your guitar, buddy?")
I have no idea how this affects the bridge doctor, but considering that the bracing in a D25 is the same as a D212, which has 12 strings, yet doesn't go belly-crazy, I'm not even slightly worried about bellying. And you seem to have done a great job of getting that thing glued back correctly.

 

[mario1956]

I know with a few of my acoustics just lowering the action corrected the problematic sharp low "E". Too high action causes the string to pull sharp when it's pressed. May not work for you but worked for me.
As an example my new D-18 was pretty bad with the 7/64 factory standard action. It was lowered to 5/64 and fixed the issue.