Guild Orpheum, does the sound and quality match the mystique?

Br1ck

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Gryphon brought them into their shop when they first came out. They were not a Guild dealer, and they bought half a dozen. I recall them as being equal to the other guitars on the wall from the likes of Collings, Huss and Daulton, SCGC, etc. I think they languished unsold for a while for various factors not having to do with how they played. I'd surely pick one off the wall and play it, and if I were shopping, I'd take a drive to play one.
 

chazmo

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I was trying to think of Gryphon the other day, as I think they were a Guild dealer in the Bay Area with a nice selection. Someone from San Francisco was asking about that recently. But, I just checked their web site and it looks like they don't carry Guild these days. That's a shame. Lots of nice guitars on their site though, but not Guilds.
 

West R Lee

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Jim, is your CJ standard or short scale, rosewood or mahogany? If it's standard scale, a better comparison would be to the Gibson Advanced Jumbo, most of which are rosewood. My Bourgeois Slope D is more comparable to an AJ as well, although it's mahogany, and is quite a different beast from my Gibson WM45.
My CJ is short scale Sandy. It's rosewood with a German spruce top. An incredible guitar.

West
 

twocorgis

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My CJ is short scale Sandy. It's rosewood with a German spruce top. An incredible guitar.

West
I have a good friend who used to be John Sebastian's road manager, and he owns his old CJ. His is standard scale though. I agree, it's a great guitar, much better than the D2H and DS2H I never bonded with.
 

West R Lee

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I have a good friend who used to be John Sebastian's road manager, and he owns his old CJ. His is standard scale though. I agree, it's a great guitar, much better than the D2H and DS2H I never bonded with.
The amount of bass that comes out of these smaller boxes (slope shoulders) just blows me away. I really like my D2HA, but this D1A takes the cake.

West
 
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twocorgis

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The amount of bass that comes out of these smaller boxes (slope shoulders) just blows me away. I really like my D2HA, but this D1A takes the cake.

West
I think the D2H I had was a dud. It had a repaired top crack, which may have affected the tone, and had made the rounds of a few owners before me, and at least two that I know of after me. It was a nice guitar, just nothing special. The DS2H also had a repaired top crack, but it was much better. I just didn’t like the neck profile or the slothead. I sold it to a fellow down your way (in Uvalde) that liked it so much that he bought another! Meanwhile, the guy I bought the guitar from, was trying to buy it back from Jim, and he wasn’t selling.
I too love slope shoulder dreads. I’ve had two Bourgeois Slope Ds. The first was maybe the better of the two, and I foolishly sold it when I got my Gibson WM45, thinking I didn’t need two slope shoulders. Now that I have this ‘97 (with an amazing bearclaw top), I’ll never make that mistake again! 04E16721-4FF0-422C-87D8-9F8AF315CD59.jpeg
 

West R Lee

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I think the D2H I had was a dud. It had a repaired top crack, which may have affected the tone, and had made the rounds of a few owners before me, and at least two that I know of after me. It was a nice guitar, just nothing special. The DS2H also had a repaired top crack, but it was much better. I just didn’t like the neck profile or the slothead. I sold it to a fellow down your way (in Uvalde) that liked it so much that he bought another! Meanwhile, the guy I bought the guitar from, was trying to buy it back from Jim, and he wasn’t selling.
I too love slope shoulder dreads. I’ve had two Bourgeois Slope Ds. The first was maybe the better of the two, and I foolishly sold it when I got my Gibson WM45, thinking I didn’t need two slope shoulders. Now that I have this ‘97 (with an amazing bearclaw top), I’ll never make that mistake again!04E16721-4FF0-422C-87D8-9F8AF315CD59.jpeg
Funny thing Sandy that we both love slope shoulder dreads, but I've played a couple of J45s and didn't care for either of them. No doubt though that you can get a dud by any manufacturer I'm sure. And I'd say some are nice sounding/playing, but then you'll run across an example of the same model, and that particular guitar will blow you away. I've owned three D55s, and only one really blew me away. Then too, sound/tone are so subjective. You might not care for what I think sounds great, and vice versa. Cool looking top on that guitar BTW.

West
 

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Unfortunately, the sale of Guild to Cordoba made for a short-lived Orpheum run. I think Ren put everything he had into making the move to Oxnard work - once again setting up a factory that would be capable of building world-class guitars. But I have to say, my armchair gut feeling is that thus far, Cordoba has somewhat squandered the opportunity Ren gave them. Clearly, this current chapter in the life of Guild is ongoing, but the past seven years of development seems to have been rather stifled by corporate decision makers.
Bob - I think you could be right. I feel like the factory got off to a good few years start. Based on what I have seen so far they seem to put more energy into the overseas models - value models. I get this from a financial perspective. I think the US shop has suffered. Throw in inflation, a major pandemic, etc. and we're seeing QC issues etc. CMG could ( speculation - nothing factual ) be more concerned with image crafting the Guild brand right now than crafting great US made guitars. When I went by the clinical little 10x10 room they rented at NAMM it was more about a young and hip millennial type image than seasoned american tradition. In other words there didn't appear to be any old sh*ts there who know where the brand had been.
 

Walter Broes

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Unrelated to the Orpheums this thread is about, I don't really agree with what's being said about the Oxnard guitars on this thread - they're great.
I've played a good number of them, and they're well-made, very lightly built guitars. I'd take an Oxnard D40 traditional over any pre-Gruhn-era Westerly dread I've played.

And I'd love to see them come out with F-30's, F-40's, F-47's etc..., but I think I understand why they haven't yet : I can't imagine CMG has made a nickel on the US-built guitars yet, probably the opposite. Starting a brand new acoustic guitar factory in California, hiring and training staff and getting production up to a reasonable level must have cost them a fortune so far that I can't see them having earned back in the very busy acoustic guitar market.

I'm not a big fan of the "import" acoustics, I don't really love where CMG has taken the Newark Street guitars post- FMIC, but I do think they've been making high quality acoustics in Oxnard. If I can dream out loud, I'd love to see them build more archetypal Guild models, ánd some classic Guild electrics in the US to that same high standard.....but I'm not holding my breath....
 

Br1ck

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The only new Guilds I've ever seen at Gryphon were the Orpheums, None before or after. The fact they brought them in is testament to the guitars. The only other Guilds I've seen were one or two F 30s, an F 40 I bought from them, and my D 35 that needed extensive work. Maybe a 12 string. This is over forty or so years. I remember Gelb in Redwood City carried them, but never more than two or three. If there are any SF Bay area dealers, I don't know of them.
 

twocorgis

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Unrelated to the Orpheums this thread is about, I don't really agree with what's being said about the Oxnard guitars on this thread - they're great.
I've played a good number of them, and they're well-made, very lightly built guitars. I'd take an Oxnard D40 traditional over any pre-Gruhn-era Westerly dread I've played.

And I'd love to see them come out with F-30's, F-40's, F-47's etc..., but I think I understand why they haven't yet : I can't imagine CMG has made a nickel on the US-built guitars yet, probably the opposite. Starting a brand new acoustic guitar factory in California, hiring and training staff and getting production up to a reasonable level must have cost them a fortune so far that I can't see them having earned back in the very busy acoustic guitar market.

I'm not a big fan of the "import" acoustics, I don't really love where CMG has taken the Newark Street guitars post- FMIC, but I do think they've been making high quality acoustics in Oxnard. If I can dream out loud, I'd love to see them build more archetypal Guild models, ánd some classic Guild electrics in the US to that same high standard.....but I'm not holding my breath....
I pretty much agree with everything you've said Walter. I wasn't a big fan of CMG's stewardship of the brand until I played a D40 Traditional at my local Sam Ash, and it was superb. Better than the D40 Traditional from New Hartford that I owned briefly and think might have been a dud, and better than any D40 I've played, save the '66 that I bought recently. Those Hoboken flattops really are something else again, but then they've also had 50+ years of aging. Sad that I won't be around when these Oxnard guitars hit 50.
 

chazmo

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The only new Guilds I've ever seen at Gryphon were the Orpheums, None before or after. The fact they brought them in is testament to the guitars. The only other Guilds I've seen were one or two F 30s, an F 40 I bought from them, and my D 35 that needed extensive work. Maybe a 12 string. This is over forty or so years. I remember Gelb in Redwood City carried them, but never more than two or three. If there are any SF Bay area dealers, I don't know of them.
Thought they sold one of the 25th anniversary Brazilian D-55s... Maybe I got that wrong, Br1ck... Thought they were a Guild dealer back then. Maybe not.
 

bobouz

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Regarding Oxnard‘s build quality, my standard approach to assessing instruments is that I should play at least three of any given model before making generalizations about a given product. Unfortunately, I’ve never found even one USA-Guild locally to have in-hand, so back to square one!
 

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I own an Oxnard build and have played several from the late two thousand teens. They are killer. And I agree they have all been lightweight - my F-55 included. It weighs less than my D-35. I have recently heard of a couple of QC scenarios that raise an eyebrow or two. I am just wondering aloud if we are seeing a dip in standards.. Time will tell. I certainly hope not.

I stand by my opinions on where I think they are focused brand-wise. Maybe to obtain a younger audience. Especially, since the younger crowd seems to care less about where the guitar is made.

With regard to "imports" I think Guild FMIC era imports and CMG managed imports do a pretty good job on quality.
 

Br1ck

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I go back as far as the eighties with Gryphon. Only remember one batch of Guilds, those Orphiums. If they were a Guild dealer, it was before my time.
 

chazmo

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I go back as far as the eighties with Gryphon. Only remember one batch of Guilds, those Orphiums. If they were a Guild dealer, it was before my time.
Gotcha', Br1ck. No, I must be wrong. Maybe it's just that some folks had their Guilds repaired there? Dunno. Best wishes.
 

SFIV1967

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I was trying to think of Gryphon the other day, as I think they were a Guild dealer in the Bay Area with a nice selection. Someone from San Francisco was asking about that recently. But, I just checked their web site and it looks like they don't carry Guild these days. That's a shame. Lots of nice guitars on their site though, but not Guilds.
The only new Guilds I've ever seen at Gryphon were the Orpheums, None before or after. The fact they brought them in is testament to the guitars. The only other Guilds I've seen were one or two F 30s, an F 40 I bought from them, and my D 35 that needed extensive work. Maybe a 12 string. This is over forty or so years. I remember Gelb in Redwood City carried them, but never more than two or three. If there are any SF Bay area dealers, I don't know of them.
Thought they sold one of the 25th anniversary Brazilian D-55s... Maybe I got that wrong, Br1ck... Thought they were a Guild dealer back then. Maybe not.
Chazmo, no you remember something else... Gryphons in Palo Alto were never a Guild dealer they had however from time to time some nice vintage ones. And due to Frank Ford a seriously cool shop all the time. I loved been there. But they had the Orpheums as Br1ck said.
Now Gelb in Redwood was indeed a Guild dealer but again as Br1ck said never had more than 2 or 3 in their small shop. I've been there maybe 3 times during New Hartford times.
What you remember about the 55th was Guitar Showcase in San Jose! 6L6 or Al know them well, I also have been there a few times, always enjoyed it. It was a cool and large shop but they got flooded with Taylor guitars at one point...
I've been there around the time that video was made:




Ralf
 

chazmo

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Dang, Ralf. That is 100% right. Gryphon is Frank Ford. Right! And, YES! Guitar Showcase had that Brazilian D-55 anniversary edition... Al and 6L6... Yup, that's the one that I was thinking of here! I've never been so "Ralfed" in all my time here! :D :D But, all in a GOOD way!

I wonder if Guitar Showcase is selling any Guilds. Someone was asking about Bay Area dealers, and it's kind of crazy to me that there's so little going on there (for Guild)!
 

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chazmo

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