Help me sort out what to do…

[adorshki]

I just got clarification, the action is actually 3/16" which the seller says is appropriate for acoustics. He accused me of overthinking it and that only electrics have action as low as 3/32".

I have three early '70s guilds in the house atm. On two of them, the bridges are convex and max height is 0.325". On the other one, the bridge is actually slightly concave and maxes at 0.225". That shape allows a straight edge to almost sit on top of the bridge, but the D string is only 0.36" above the top. Frets.com mentions the qualification that a bridge has not been shaved down too far. I am getting all this from the linked page here: Frets.com on neck angle

True about being relevant to a non-shaved bridge but that's why I mentioned Guild bridgs were exceptionally low for a period in the ''70's, although it may have been later, I just can't recall.

But 3/16 action= 12/64,WAY too high for anything if correctly measured. Guild's only published spec in, '97, was 5-6/64 on bass E and 4-5/64 on treble E:

I agree your seller is woefully under-informed about flattop action or else being intentionally obtuse. Am 100% positive they've mis-identified manufacturing year as well. It's extremely common among indifferent flippers.

 

[adorshki]

I have not checked for that but I did run the serial number by Hans, and he said completed in '72 I bought it in early '73 if I recall correctly, it was the first one my local music store saw. My serial is 72805

Actually, yes... see page 126 of Hans' book. "Some '72 models are known to exist..."

Gotta try to remember that, thanks!

 

[Wilmywood]

E-type, also, my bridge is thin with a VERY short saddle, from the factory. Hasn't needed a neck reset yet. But, it's lived almost all of its life with extra light D'Addarios 10s. I have 12s on it right now tuned a step low.

Also my action at the 12th is 3/32, and the straight edge on the frets contact the bridge just below its top surface.

 

[Wilmywood]

Actually, yes... see page 126 of Hans' book. "Some '72 models are known to exist..."

Mine, and one other I know of, being two examples of that.

 

[E-Type]

True about being relevant to a non-shaved bridge but that's why I mentioned Guild bridgs were exceptionally low for a period in the ''70's, although it may have been later, I just can't recall.

But 3/16 action= 12/64,WAY too high for anything if correctly measured. Guild's only published spec in, '97, was 5-6/64 on bass E and 4-5/64 on treble E:

I agree your seller is woefully under-informed about flattop action or else being intentionally obtuse. Am 100% positive they've mis-identified manufacturing year as well. It's extremely common among indifferent flippers.

The guy says he's been in the business 60 years and he worked at Guild in the 1960s setting up guitars before shipment. I still think he must be mistaken in his measure as I cannot see how anyone could think 3/16" is great action. I am guessing it must be 3/32", right?

Guild G-37 1973 - 1986 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

 

[Wilmywood]

E-type, also one other thing on these maple archbacks - my friend SJS, I gifted him a '78 G37 about a year ago. He also has a '49 Martin D-45 that I have played as well. He and I both agree that these Guilds are a better sounding guitar than the Martin.

 

[Wilmywood]

The guy says he's been in the business 60 years and he worked at Guild in the 1960s setting up guitars before shipment. I still think he must be mistaken in his measure as I cannot see how anyone could think 3/16" is great action. I am guessing it must be 3/32", right?

https://reverb.com/item/77586353-guild-g-37-1972

Mine is 3/32

 

[adorshki]

E-type, also, my bridge is thin with a VERY short saddle, from the factory. Hasn't needed a neck reset yet.

The challenge here is twofold:

1. In order to keep a given instrument playable, its bridge may have been shaved (planed, sanded) to reduce its height, such that a straightedge laid across the fretboard just kisses the top of that bridge. But the bridge is likely now too small.
2. A very thin bridge may have originally shipped with a guitar, but that most assuredly does not mean the bridge was sized correctly in the first place. A bridge's height is only one factor in determining a its efficacy.

Recall that Guild's assembly method was to set the neck first, and then use use pre-sized bridge blanks, using a blank that was appropriate height for the neckset angle. So sure there's going to be some minor variations among pieces, but assuming an outright assembly error wasn't made, that's how bridge heights were determined at point of assembly.

What I really wonder if they went to a very "flat" neckset at the time, as opposed to sightly overset which would require thicker bridges to match the angle.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

I just got clarification, the action is actually 3/16" which the seller says is appropriate for acoustics. He accused me of overthinking it and that only electrics have action as low as 3/32".

Hi E-Type.

For your own comparison, I set all my acoustics up such that the Bass string(s) never measure higher than 3/32nds" (6/64ths) at the 12th fret (that's 1/2 the height of your seller's measurement. Fingerstyle acoustic players typically prefer much lower actions of 4 to 5/64ths. Granted, my own instruments are built such that the soundboards are very responsive, and the lightest touch sets them in motion, so the strings can quite comfortably reside closer to the fretboard. But I have several Guilds (and many other brands) that perform admirably with these measurements. There should be NO need to have to SCRUB the daylights out of the strings in order to hear sound (unless there is a hearing issue - then the rules change). Playing that hard necessitates a very high action (like your seller's 3/16th" - and beyond) just to keep the strings from slapping against the frets. But I would venture that something else is wrong when someone is attempting to justify a high action.

 

[adorshki]

The guy says he's been in the business 60 years and he worked at Guild in the 1960s setting up guitars before shipment. I still think he must be mistaken in his measure as I cannot see how anyone could think 3/16" is great action. I am guessing it must be 3/32", right?
Reverb Link

Just a heads-up, Reverb link didn't work but thanks for the attempt.
Anyway, I'm still kinda skeptical but given the guy must be 75 at least by now, I'm willing to agree with you about mistaken measurement and perhaps other cognitive issues..no snark intended, I'm in a conciliatory mood this AM.

It is, after all, starting to happen to me.

 

[E-Type]

At risk of really making him mad, I asked about the serial number and the action again. It just cannot be 3/16".

 

[Wilmywood]

At risk of really making him mad, I asked about the serial number and the action again. It just cannot be 3/16".

Not a thing to lose at this point. AND the TRC is on correctly - a bonus!!!

I'm hoping we'll be able to welcome another member to the archback kool-aid gulping society

 

[E-Type]

Hi E-Type.

For your own comparison, I set all my acoustics up such that the Bass string(s) never measure higher than 3/32nds" (6/64ths) at the 12th fret (that's 1/2 the height of your seller's measurement. Fingerstyle acoustic players typically prefer much lower actions of 4 to 5/64ths. Granted, my own instruments are built such that the soundboards are very responsive, and the lightest touch sets them in motion, so the strings can quite comfortably reside closer to the fretboard. But I have several Guilds (and many other brands) that perform admirably with these measurements. There should be NO need to have to SCRUB the daylights out of the strings in order to hear sound (unless there is a hearing issue - then the rules change). Playing that hard necessitates a very high action (like your seller's 3/16th" - and beyond) just to keep the strings from slapping against the frets. But I would venture that something else is wrong when someone is attempting to justify a high action.

Thanks! I play far enough up the fretboard at times that 3/16" would drive me crazy. But I do find a lower string height at the bridge helps with fingerstyle as I rest my pinkie on the top.

 

[E-Type]

Just a heads-up, Reverb link didn't work but thanks for the attempt.
Anyway, I'm still kinda skeptical but given the guy must be 75 at east by now, I'm willing to agree with you about mistaken measurement and perhaps other cognitive issues..no snark intended, I'm in a conciliatory mood this AM.

It is, after all, starting to happen to me.

Fixed it! (the link)

Guild G-37 1973 - 1986 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

 

[Wilmywood]

Fixed it! (the link)

Guild G-37 1973 - 1986 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

That seems a pretty good price compared to the others listed

 

[Br1ck]

Keep the guitar. But you will always wonder if you don't also buy a 70-72 D 35 and the flatback D 25. Then go find an F 30. Only then will you know what is best.

 

[Boomstick]

I just got clarification, the action is actually 3/16" which the seller says is appropriate for acoustics. He accused me of overthinking it and that only electrics have action as low as 3/32".

The action on my F-50 and G-37 is close to 1/8". 3/16" isn't horrible, but not the best.

 

[E-Type]

Keep the guitar. But you will always wonder if you don't also buy a 70-72 D 35 and the flatback D 25. Then go find an F 30. Only then will you know what is best.

Already have a flatback D-25, but I’d really like a ‘67 F-30! Here is a family portrait…I need another stand!

 

[adorshki]

Fixed it! (the link)

Guild G-37 1973 - 1986 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

I recognize that name:
https://guildguitars.com/dealer-spotlight-matt-umanov-guitars-new-york-n-y/

I'm starting to think "Don't overthink it" is code for "I'm tired of 'splainin' things to people."
Which I can sympathize with. But I still think that 3/16" was a goof, even if an honest one..
Unless he really is tired of you.

 

[E-Type]

He says the serial number is 64832. That is not only 1972, but an earlier one at that!