In the Market for an Affordable Vintage Guild (D-15 or 25). What to look out for?

[davenumber2]

Just saying low action means essentially nothing. Too subjective. Measurements aren’t subjective. Sellers are either clueless, lazy or trying to hide the actual condition. If you’re selling a guitar you should know how to measure 12th fret action.

 

[GeoffHW]

It is crazy, I have asked sellers for clarification of "low action", "comfortable action", "still plenty of room to lower the saddle" and have gotten everything from 8/64" to 12/64" in action measurements and I had a guy suggest shaving the bridge to lower the saddle. I have never tried a return based on this, but I have no idea what Reverb considers "low action." I'd hate to test it.

What is a safe measurement for a guild? I've gotten between 5/64 and 6/64. Does that sound good?

Not exactly sure how neck resets work or truss rods. But seems like I should be looking for someone selling a refretted D-15 or D-25 that has recently had a neck reset. Found some options around $900-$1000.

But at that price I wonder if I should be looking at a D-35.

Edit: and just over 0.4" from top to low E near the bridge. I got 0.47" from some sellers. Closest to 0.4" I could find.

 

[davenumber2]

What is a safe measurement for a guild? I've gotten between 5/64 and 6/64. Does that sound good?

Not exactly sure how neck resets work or truss rods. But seems like I should be looking for someone selling a refretted D-15 or D-25 that has recently had a neck reset. Found some options around $900-$1000.

But at that price I wonder if I should be looking at a D-35.

Edit: and just over 0.4" from top to low E near the bridge. I got 0.47" from some sellers. Closest to 0.4" I could find.

Respectfully, if you don’t know about resets or truss rods and how things work you might want to look at a newer guitar or buy from a trusted shop. Either that or take the time to learn about those things and all the things to look for etc. before diving into a vintage purchase. It’s easy to get burned and end up with a guitar that needs a bunch of repairs you couldn’t see or didn’t know to look for.

 

[GeoffHW]

Respectfully, if you don’t know about resets or truss rods and how things work you might want to look at a newer guitar or buy from a trusted shop. Either that or take the time to learn about those things and all the things to look for etc. before diving into a vintage purchase. It’s easy to get burned and end up with a guitar that needs a bunch of repairs you couldn’t see or didn’t know to look

Understood. I kind of hate new instruments so it's something I definitely need to learn and know well. I'm fully set on only buying used and vintage so these are things I should learn regardless. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[E-Type]

What is a safe measurement for a guild? I've gotten between 5/64 and 6/64. Does that sound good?

Not exactly sure how neck resets work or truss rods. But seems like I should be looking for someone selling a refretted D-15 or D-25 that has recently had a neck reset. Found some options around $900-$1000.

But at that price I wonder if I should be looking at a D-35.

Edit: and just over 0.4" from top to low E near the bridge. I got 0.47" from some sellers. Closest to 0.4" I could find.

As for the string-above-top measure, 0.5” is actually ideal. They usually start at 0.45”-0.5”. As the strings pull at the neck, the action rises and to keep it low, people shave down the saddle. Lowering the saddle 2/64” lowers the action by 1/64”. At some point you cannot lower the saddle any further and so then some people shave the bridge so they can further shave the saddle. At some point this process affects the guitar’s tone.

To me, low action is <5/64”. Med-low is 5/64”-6/64”. Medium is 6/64”-7/64. Med-high is 7/64”-8/64” and high is anything above 8/64”.

The action should never be used to improve action…unless you like really high action (or if there is excessive relief—unlikely).

If the strings are 0.47 above the top at the bridge, you can prob lower the action 2/64 by shaving the saddle. If that dist is 0.40, then you cannot lower it any more by adjusting the saddle,

But it’s even more complicated than this. Adjustments can be made at the nut, and if a neck has too much relief (unlikely), then you can lower the action a tiny bit there. Also, if frets are way low, new taller frets can lower the action.

Most seem to like 5/64@-6/64” of action. If a guitar is there and the string height at the bridge is 0.42”, you are gtg. If it’s 7/64” and the strings are 0.46”. You are also prob gtg. If 8/64” action, you prob want 0.48” at the bridge to give your luthier something to work with.

If you only play open chords, then 8/64” action and 0.45” string height will prob be fine.

 

[E-Type]

A neck block is glued to the sides of the guitar where the two sides meet on the neck side. The top and bottom of the guitar are also glued to the sides. That makes for a fairly rigid box. However, strings exert a lot of force on the neck. You can calculate here the amount of tension:

Stringjoy Guitar String Tension Calculator

The Stringjoy Guitar String Tension Calculator is the easiest and best tool to build the perfect balanced tension set of strings for your guitar or bass.

tension.stringjoy.com

Tension Calculator

The amount tension rises when you go from 10s to 11s to 12s from about 140 lbs to 160 lbs to 180 lbs. This causes the sides of the guitar to deform over time as the neck gets pulled up. Also, it can cause the top (around the bridge) to pull up. On my 1970, the neck block is not as wide as on my '73 and '74 and so less of the sides are helping resist this force. It has been reset, at least once. The beefing up of Guilds starting in 1973 helps to resist this movement. I think for most guitars, the wood finally gets to the point where this "collapse" slows or stops. Eventually, the rigidity of the box holds. If it doesn't, it generally means something in the wood is totally failing. Signs of this would be the neck actually causing the sides to collapse in towards the sound hole. Here is an extreme version of this. So any cracking of the top on either side of the fretboard, especially if there is any movement of the fretboard towards the sound hole gives me pause.

Pretty extreme.


Here is one with the movement just starting.


I have also seen where the sides of the guitar where they meet the neck start to deform inwards.

You an see that here. This can be fixed, but it's prob not a cheap repair.

 

[GeoffHW]

A neck block is glued to the sides of the guitar where the two sides meet on the neck side. The top and bottom of the guitar are also glued to the sides. That makes for a fairly rigid box. However, strings exert a lot of force on the neck. You can calculate here the amount of tension:

Stringjoy Guitar String Tension Calculator

The Stringjoy Guitar String Tension Calculator is the easiest and best tool to build the perfect balanced tension set of strings for your guitar or bass.

tension.stringjoy.com

Tension Calculator

The amount tension rises when you go from 10s to 11s to 12s from about 140 lbs to 160 lbs to 180 lbs. This causes the sides of the guitar to deform over time as the neck gets pulled up. Also, it can cause the top (around the bridge) to pull up. On my 1970, the neck block is not as wide as on my '73 and '74 and so less of the sides are helping resist this force. It has been reset, at least once. The beefing up of Guilds starting in 1973 helps to resist this movement. I think for most guitars, the wood finally gets to the point where this "collapse" slows or stops. Eventually, the rigidity of the box holds. If it doesn't, it generally means something in the wood is totally failing. Signs of this would be the neck actually causing the sides to collapse in towards the sound hole. Here is an extreme version of this. So any cracking of the top on either side of the fretboard, especially if there is any movement of the fretboard towards the sound hole gives me pause.

Pretty extreme.


Here is one with the movement just starting.


I have also seen where the sides of the guitar where they meet the neck start to deform inwards.

You an see that here. This can be fixed, but it's prob not a cheap repair.

Thanks for the images and explanation! They're super helpful.

I was given measurements of 5-6/64 at the 12th fret and 0.46" near the bridge. So that sounds reasonably good for an 84' D-15 and D-25.

Thanks for all the information. It'll make knowing what to look for much easier.

 

[Boneman]

Unless you are dead set on an arched back, I’d look at D35s, you can get one in good shape for less than a grand.

 

[GeoffHW]

Unless you are dead set on an arched back, I’d look at D35s, you can get one in good shape for less than a grand.

I'm considering it. I have heard the sustain on the arch backs is what really sets them apart from flat backs. Whichever I can find at a better price in a better condition is likely what I'll go with. I was set on a full hog model but I like the extra volume that comes along with spruce tops.

So I'll keep a look out for my options. Actually found a Guild G37 in my area which I had never heard of but it's a bit expensive.

 

[chazmo]

I'm considering it. I have heard the sustain on the arch backs is what really sets them apart from flat backs. Whichever I can find at a better price in a better condition is likely what I'll go with. I was set on a full hog model but I like the extra volume that comes along with spruce tops.

So I'll keep a look out for my options. Actually found a Guild G37 in my area which I had never heard of but it's a bit expensive.

It's a long, winding, wonderful road comparing all these Guilds to one another, Geoff. Enjoy the circuitous path to joy.

 

[E-Type]

I'm considering it. I have heard the sustain on the arch backs is what really sets them apart from flat backs. Whichever I can find at a better price in a better condition is likely what I'll go with. I was set on a full hog model but I like the extra volume that comes along with spruce tops.

So I'll keep a look out for my options. Actually found a Guild G37 in my area which I had never heard of but it's a bit expensive.

As the owner of a '73 D-35 and a '74 D-25, I can tell you while I slightly prefer the tone of the D-25, I slightly prefer the D-35 because it is 8oz lighter. The tone of the two guitars is pretty similar. You cannot go wrong either way. My D-35, in very good shape but still needing some work, was $1,300 (7 day return option). The D-25, in very similar condition, was $1,100 (45 day return window). You might find one or the other in very good to excellent shape here on the forum for less than $1,000, but probably not elsewhere.

 

[E-Type]

Thanks for the images and explanation! They're super helpful.

I was given measurements of 5-6/64 at the 12th fret and 0.46" near the bridge. So that sounds reasonably good for an 84' D-15 and D-25.

Thanks for all the information. It'll make knowing what to look for much easier.

Those two do seem like good candidates.

 

[Boneman]

This appears to be a good deal, and it’s brand new, used . $800, like you were gonna spend, and free shipping, might be worth a call for measurements etc:

Guild D-25 Acoustic Guitar (Natural Mahogany) Vintage 1978 USED | Reverb

SPECIFCATIONS BODY Body Shape: Dreadnought W/ Concert Arched Back Body Finish: Mahogany Gloss Solid Wood Top: Mahogany Solid Back & Sides: Mahogany Bridge Wood: Rosewood Binding: N/A NECK Neck Wood: Mahogany Fingerboard Wood: Rosewoo...

reverb.com

 

[E-Type]

This appears to be a good deal, and it’s brand new, used . $800, like you were gonna spend, and free shipping, might be worth a call for measurements etc:

Guild D-25 Acoustic Guitar (Natural Mahogany) Vintage 1978 USED | Reverb

SPECIFCATIONS BODY Body Shape: Dreadnought W/ Concert Arched Back Body Finish: Mahogany Gloss Solid Wood Top: Mahogany Solid Back & Sides: Mahogany Bridge Wood: Rosewood Binding: N/A NECK Neck Wood: Mahogany Fingerboard Wood: Rosewoo...

reverb.com

Haha, someone evidently clicked the wrong box on the condition. But it certainly has potential.