Just called Guild regarding the GAD Chinese factory...

[DCannon]

I just spoke to a very helpful and knowledgeable person at Guild regarding the GAD factory in China and was given the OK to post the following information here.

Guild does not own the building where the GADs are made, but it's definitely proprietary to Guild with no other brands of guitars being made there. The workforce is trained to accommodate specific Guild designs from Guild U.S.A., so considered a Guild-only factory. Good to hear and thought I'd just pass on the info since there have been many questions about this subject. He didn't tell me where it's located.

So, GAD players, rest assured your Guilds are Guilds and not some offshoot with a Guild logo on the headstock.

Makes me feel even better about the F-130R my friend at the local dealer has on order for me. Should be here tomorrow or the first of next week.

 

[southernGuild]

My GAD30-Re and I thank you for that info.

 

[jeffcoop]

My GAD30-Re and I thank you for that info.

As do I and my GAD-F20.

 

[adorshki]

Guild does not own the building where the GADs are made, but it's definitely proprietary to Guild with no other brands of guitars being made there. The workforce is trained to accommodate specific Guild designs from Guild U.S.A., so considered a Guild-only factory.

I'm assuming this was inspired by my post to our new member Alan814, in the "New Guy Checking In" thread:
"Only a fine point here and NOT meant to take away from your guitar, but it's not actually a "Guild " factory. Not even sure you could call it a Fender factory, although they do select the woods that are sent there for assembly.
We saw some photos from inside the place a while back, and it was apparent that other (non-Fender) brands were being made there too. It's more of a "contract assembly" house.
Ahhh..... here it is: (click on the link to see the old thread):
http://letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtop ... ry#p326652
Funny topic, too. :wink:"

I humbly re-submit for consideration, a thread liked in that thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5063&start=15
I call attention to the source of the statement that the Grand Reward factory is (or maybe now, WAS) the point of manufacture for GAD guitars: Dklsplace. Our forum founder.
With all due respect for Guild employess, I frankly put more credibility in a statement from Don Letson, "Dklsplace" , the founder of this forum, than I do in just about anybody except Hans Moust and possibly a few select New Hartford employees who have been with the brand for longer than New Hartford's been making Guilds.
Did you actually call New Hartford, or Fender's Customer Service in Scottsdale?
That could explain a lot.
Again with all due respect for Fender employees, those guys in Scottsdale have shown a limited familiarity with Guild history in past, most recently regarding an admittedly excellent "copy" of a '70's vintage D50 guitar, which they said "appeared to be a D50" in spite of several visual clues about its "counterfeit" nature.
Another example was the absence of any records in Scottsdale about a running model construction change in Tacoma built 12-string guitars: the truss rod system change.
It's not a knock on the guys in Scottsdale, it's just by way of explaining that in fact they don't have access to a comprehensive encyclopedia about all things Guild. Even Hans doesn't.
A lot of stuff apparently never was even documented, let alone discarded due to "no longer relevant for business needs."
The secondary possibility is that the guitars may be made in a proprietary Guild plant now, this could very well explain the spec and model numbering system changes introduced to the GAD line earlier this year.
In fact I suspect that's the actual explanation (new point of manufacture), and I'm still satisfied that the early "GAD"-designated guitars were made in the location previously noted, the Grand Reward factory.
In other words, I believe what you were told today, I just don't believe it was always that way. :wink:
Or, if I'm wrong, lets get the record straight! :wink:
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against GADS! :wink:
I do have a great interest in seeing accurate history posted here and have had to eat a bit of humble pie myself when my own perception of "the facts" turned out to be incorrect. :lol: :wink:

 

[southernGuild]

Excellent points made there Al, as well as fair questions pondered. I'm not sure is thatb was always the case as well, as you said.

In other words, I believe what you were told today, I just don't believe it was always that way. :wink:

I've read through half of that long thread this morning, and was glad to see it come up again, as I too was never quite sure of the whole situation. Those photos from the factory in some ways speak for themselves, yet still, there is much uncertainty even in what we see, as well as what we are told. It 'would' be nice to actually have the facts before us.
I see no reason why they should be obscured.
To add to the muddle. I actually have a guitar here, that was made in China, AND has the exact same shape headstock as a Guild. :shock:
Shaped as a Guild, ( a Guild F5ce actually) with a cutaway and Oval soundhole, Beautiful woods ( Rosewood w/spruce top) and excellent workmanship. It was not trying to pass as a Guild, It has clear labels as such, But very little info can be found about it. The brand name is Accord, and it says on the label "Made for Australian conditions". So, There are guitars out there with Guild shaped headstocks ( although, outside of this one here, I know of no others). But If there are, then who knows just what we've seen in that photo. Were they actually Guild headstocks? ( I tend to think they were, but, again, not sure.)
It's all very interesting, but I would sure appreciate some clarity on the whole thing. I dont understand 'why' it is so hard to get a straight answer.
And so it goes...

 

[fronobulax]

We've received contradictory information. Let's not start assessing the character of the source in order to resolve the differences.

A few comments based upon what I heard and think I remember from LMG III.

In no particular order...

Fender procures the wood used in GADs and arranges for shipment.

A Fender employee visits the plant and inspects the processes and product.

The factory is extremely good at doing what they are told but if it is not specified, the factory tends towards the lowest cost solution.

Most of the employees are from rural areas. Every three months or so the factory shuts down for week and employees go home. Not everyone comes back. About 95% of the GAD builders return as opposed to 70% of employees at other factories. (I may have the numbers wrong but the point is that the employees are happy, well paid and apparently consider that work as better than the alternative).

Fender expects labor costs to rise to the point that in 3 to 5 years some guitar manufacturing jobs, currently in China, could migrate to the US.

The Guild people based in New Hartford are not necessarily the best source of information about operations elsewhere in the FMIC family, including manufacturing in China. Indeed, IIRC of the four people answering questions at LMG III only one was "based" in New Hartford.

 

[adorshki]

It 'would' be nice to actually have the facts before us.
I see no reason why they should be obscured.

Can't sell tomorrow's newspaper if you give 'em all the facts today.
Why a good scandal always gets milked for a few weeks. ( :lol: ) BUT, I digress, and politics ist verboten here, ( :wink: ) s-o-o-o.....
I was pondering that question myself and can only come up with some reasonable suppositions: that to try to "divulge" all that is either a unwise marketing move, and/or (more likely) all these assembly arrangements are known in advance to be of limited duration and therefore subject to change without notice. Corrollary considerations: GAD warranty claims? I'm pretty darn sure Fender isn't really going to ship them back to China for rework, therefore, what's the point in even keeping any (long-term)source records, once the invoice's been paid? For warranty records maybe? In fact, that makes me wonder how or even if they even bill back the maker for defective product.....:"Hey China, got a GAD25 here with a cracked soundboard"... "Kindly request esteemed sponsor to render proof defective is apparent" ( :lol: ) also explains why the warranty says repair or replace at their discretion... I'd suspect you cant even get a GAD25 replaced, although they may be happy to offer you a D125.
Third likely probability: It's really Fender's business and nobody else's, there could well be proprietary reasons for them to keep certain details about point of origin to themselves, while still proclaiming the virtues of the current point of manufacture.
So I reiterate it's no knock on GAD's, but a lot of things can get kinda complicated when you're making stuff overseas, no matter which particular factory you use.

 

[fronobulax]

I see no reason why they should be obscured.

On the contrary, I am hard pressed to come up with a reason why FMIC is obligated to tell us anything. They are a private company. They are in a competitive business and market and some details of their non-US operations might possibly give a competitor an advantage.

I don't think we have any right to know but if I wanted my curiosity satisfied I'd start raising questions about human rights, working conditions and exploitation and see what FMIC chooses to share. But if I did that I'm sure I wouldn't be welcome at LMG IV.

 

[southernGuild]

I agree with you on those points Frono, and I'm not really even asking about those details from FMIC. But, As an owner of a GAD, I actually just wanted the 'simple' answers, and found them hard to get.
Questions such as 'where' was it made ( like, what town or region in China)and 'when' was it made. Simple questions.
If there is a Guild focused team of workers, 'handcrafting' ( as the inner label says) the GADs in a combined brand guitar factory, thats fine. I just wanted to know that. Essentially, 'Any' additional info about the make that FMIC was comfortable to give. The kind of info that enhances the owning of ones guitar.
The finer details of the business model, I agree, is for FMIC to know.
It just becomes frustrating when one can't even get an answer as to how to actually date the GAD models according to the serial numbers inside them. I have only found that info out here on LTG just this past year, after years of trying.
That sort of info should be available on the Guild website, but to my knowledge, it isn't. I think allot of GAD owners are proud of the make of their guitars, and would want all the 'basic' info surrounding it.

 

[Ridgemont]

You guys write too much so I didn't read all the posts. But I will say that there once was a rampant rumor that GADs were built in the same factory as Blueridge, Recording King, and other high end Asian imports. I am glad that can be put to rest with your new information. Thanks for calling.

 

[adorshki]

We've received contradictory information. Let's not start assessing the character of the source in order to resolve the differences.

OK maybe I came off heavy-handed, but come on, we all tend to ascribe greater credibility to some sources than others. And I wasn't questioning character, but credentials.
Since I don't think anybody from FMIC (Scottsdale) OR New Hartford would actually fabricate information (especially for dissemination), the "2 factory hypothesis" seemed to be the only one that would explain both "stories".
Somebody's bound to come along and say "If they're great guitars does it matter where they're made?"
Well it might, and appears to, to some GAD owners at least. I can understand them wanting to know the "real backstory" about 'em, that was the main reason for my original posty to Alan.

The Guild people based in New Hartford are not necessarily the best source of information about operations elsewhere in the FMIC family, including manufacturing in China. Indeed, IIRC of the four people answering questions at LMG III only one was "based" in New Hartford.

Why I think the source of the info is relevant. Even if their character is impeccable.
Hmmm. for some reason my smileys ain't accessible right now..I'll trust that was understood as having "no snarky content"

 

[adorshki]

oops...triple post....and still no smileys....

 

[adorshki]

oops, double post.

 

[davismanLV]

If they're great guitars does it matter where they're made?

:wink: :wink:

Being a bit humorous (hopefully) and a bit sarcastic, too. But I did actually think this when the debate was raging...... When you buy American made guitars you usually pay a premium and get a pedigree. With the Chinese made guitars, you get an amazing bargain and save some money and you lose the pedigree. That's my take.

 

[fronobulax]

Smileys are back. :lol: 8) :mrgreen:

I can make a case that even knowing which part of China housed "the Guild factory" might give a competitive advantage to someone else.

What I need to remember is that guitar owners are very much interested in details about their instruments that are of no interest to users of most consumer products. For example, the vast majority of discussions I have seen or heard concerning where something is made tend to be grounded in international politics and economics and not just curiosity. Guitar owners just want to know when and where their guitar was made. Maybe someday FMIC will see that providing such information, across the entire product line, is good customer service.

 

[chazmo]

I'm a little confused about what I've read here.

At LMG3 in October, four Fender employees (including one from New Hartford) shared a crapload of information with us about the Chinese guitar production. The prior year, at LMG2, a fifth Fender guy who's actually in charge of the production shared a ton as well.

Is someone saying that we don't have access to information about goings-on with the GADs? I think that's false, although obviously you had to be there to hear this.

 

[Yoko Oh No]

i've toured the chinese factory....everything seemed in order, good working conditions, happy, enthused workers, i saw only guilds being assembled.

as i was leaving, a door marked "employee incentive office" cracked open....

:shock:

 

[adorshki]

Is someone saying that we don't have access to information about goings-on with the GADs? I think that's false, although obviously you had to be there to hear this.

I don't think anybody's griping that Fender hasn't been forthcoming with a lot of info, especially to the LMG tours where it's likely to do the most good..
It's only about specifically where they're made. I posted an old thread to a new member about the "Grand Reward" factory which appeared to be making several brands besides Guild, from a photographic evidence in the thread.
New member DCannon started this thread, that somebody at Guild specifically told him that Fender "controls" the building where the GADs are made, and only GADs are made there.
That appears to contradict the earlier thread.
I don't think we ever got the "final answer" about the Grand Reward factory, the thread wound up kind of open ended. It's possible that information was erroneous at the start, although it would surprise me since Don posted it..
On further reflection it's also possible that production has been at Grand Reward all the time, but that Fender has taken dedicated space there, a slight change from the original setup. That would also resolve the apperent contradictions.
So again, in a nutshell, a bunch of us are just curiuos about where the GADs are made. I'm specifically curiuoos about whether or not they've been made in just one place.
If Fender sees reasons not to divulge that one detail, Frono's explained there's likely good (legitimate) reasons for it.
Otherwise, the info you guys have brought back from LMG's has been probably the most reliable source of info about the brand, anyhwere. :wink:

 

[chazmo]

Very good, Al. Tnx for clarifying.

For the record, I do not recall if the Fender guys said the factory was entirely Fender/GAD or just partly dedicated to that.

 

[DCannon]

i've toured the chinese factory....everything seemed in order, good working conditions, happy, enthused workers, i saw only guilds being assembled.

There ya go. It's nice to know the person I spoke to at Guild did in fact know what he was talking about. And it's hard to dispute facts presented by an LTG member who's actually been there and verifies it's a Guild-only factory. Thanks, Yoko Do you remember the name of the town? When did you do the tour?

Excuse me....I'm going to pick up my new F-130R now.