Just called Guild regarding the GAD Chinese factory...

[fronobulax]

Is someone saying that we don't have access to information about goings-on with the GADs? I think that's false, although obviously you had to be there to hear this.

Well I'm not sure how it started but I think people are saying that it is extremely difficult to determine when and where a GAD was made compared to an American Guild. We don't know for sure what town the factory is in and the magic code to decode the serial number is not well known. We also know what other brands are made in the New Hartford factory but not the Chinese one. We know several places American Guilds were made but nothing about the production history in China.

I think there are several reasons why the information is lacking - corporate competitiveness, not keeping records for a commodity product and underestimating the curiosity of owners but it is really just asking the same questions about all of our Guilds and not just the USA Guilds.

 

[Yoko Oh No]

If they're great guitars does it matter where they're made?

:wink: :wink:

+1 1/2

 

[chazmo]

If they're great guitars does it matter where they're made?

:wink: :wink:

+1 1/2

Sigh... I'm going to state for the record that to many of us it *does* matter. Big time. And so...

Please, folks, don't further bandwagon on this. If you do, I flat-out guarantee that I'll have to shut this thread down (which I don't want to do) because it's an incendiary comment, whether it's meant in a lighthearted way -- as I expect it was by Yoko and Tom -- or not.

 

[adorshki]

Excuse me....I'm going to pick up my new F-130R now.

I'd check that puppy for cigarette residue just to be on the safe side.

 

[adorshki]

If they're great guitars does it matter where they're made?

:wink: :wink:

+1 1/2

Sigh... I'm going to state for the record that to many of us it *does* matter. Big time. And so...

It took me a couple of seconds to figure out what you meant. At the risk of pushing too far, I posted that rhetorical question first to set up the proposition that owners in general (or around here at least) seem to like to know that background stuff about their guitars, nothing more.

Please, folks, don't further bandwagon on this. If you do, I flat-out guarantee that I'll have to shut this thread down (which I don't want to do) because it's an incendiary comment, whether it's meant in a lighthearted way -- as I expect it was by Yoko and Tom -- or not.

Gonna do my best to go along with that, now that I "get it". :wink:

 

[Bikerdoc]

If they're great guitars does it matter where they're made?

:wink: :wink:

Being a bit humorous (hopefully) and a bit sarcastic, too. But I did actually think this when the debate was raging...... When you buy American made guitars you usually pay a premium and get a pedigree. With the Chinese made guitars, you get an amazing bargain and save some money and you lose the pedigree. That's my take.

I agree!!! Wow too as It's a bit ironic that last night at our weekly pickin' session there was more time spent on 'drooling' over, picking over, comparing pricing, than there was playing. Our thursday nite session has suddenly been invaded by "guitarist"!!!! :? It's upsetting to my stomach to say the least. I don't know from whence they came but they were like a room full of politically correct, pontificating left brainers. The "players" are few and far between it seems. Somehow for some reason they have been systematically eliminated from our original group, not necessarily by design but by choice, and I believe I'm going to be the next one exit. I just want to be with folks who don't care what kind of guitar I'm playing or how unaccomplished I am.

Yes, before anyone says it; I feel inadequate in their presence. I don't have to deal with it. I don't have to overcome it. I dont' have to embrace it. So I'm just moving on.

Peace

 

[RussB]

Grand Reward factory pics...see if you can spot some Guilds



http://www.faridaguitars.com/e29n0116.htm

 

[charliea]

If they're great guitars does it matter where they're made?

:wink: :wink:

Being a bit humorous (hopefully) and a bit sarcastic, too. But I did actually think this when the debate was raging...... When you buy American made guitars you usually pay a premium and get a pedigree. With the Chinese made guitars, you get an amazing bargain and save some money and you lose the pedigree. That's my take.

I agree!!! Wow too as It's a bit ironic that last night at our weekly pickin' session there was more time spent on 'drooling' over, picking over, comparing pricing, than there was playing. Our thursday nite session has suddenly been invaded by "guitarist"!!!! :? It's upsetting to my stomach to say the least. I don't know from whence they came but they were like a room full of politically correct, pontificating left brainers. The "players" are few and far between it seems. Somehow for some reason they have been systematically eliminated from our original group, not necessarily by design but by choice, and I believe I'm going to be the next one exit. I just want to be with folks who don't care what kind of guitar I'm playing or how unaccomplished I am.

Yes, before anyone says it; I feel inadequate in their presence. I don't have to deal with it. I don't have to overcome it. I dont' have to embrace it. So I'm just moving on.

Peace

You know, there are millions of guitar players out there and many of them are highly skilled. Big deal. Every one-horse town has at least two guitar instructors, and those guys will likely have some riffs guaranteed to thrill and chill. There is, however, a world of difference between "skilled" and "good". You can measure and evaluate skills, but "good" is strictly an opinion based on personal taste. If your intention is to be a virtuoso, then you'll always be in competition with those armies of skilled musicians. If your intention is to make "good" music, you don't have to compete with anybody. Fact is, many people might even think you sound better than the whiz kids. Just thinking out loud.

 

[marcellis]

Agree w/Adorshki and the skeptics. I'm not what you would call a China expert. But I've been there many times. And I know how business works there. The Fender rep might have Chinese assurances, no doubt. But those aren't worth much.

If counterfeits or off-brand knock-offs are being made,it's likely in a different building.
Or they might be doing it in the same building.

GAD's may be fine guitars and bargains for the price. I'm not dissing them.
But anything of high value is counterfeited in China.

Also, those proprietary plans are most likely being used to make off-brand counterfeits.
And I would look for counterfeit US Guild 12 sting models.

 

[fronobulax]

Grand Reward factory pics...see if you can spot some Guilds



http://www.faridaguitars.com/e29n0116.htm

To add to the muddle. I actually have a guitar here, that was made in China, AND has the exact same shape headstock as a Guild. :shock:
Shaped as a Guild, ( a Guild F5ce actually) with a cutaway and Oval soundhole, Beautiful woods ( Rosewood w/spruce top) and excellent workmanship. It was not trying to pass as a Guild, It has clear labels as such, But very little info can be found about it. The brand name is Accord, and it says on the label "Made for Australian conditions". So, There are guitars out there with Guild shaped headstocks ( although, outside of this one here, I know of no others). But If there are, then who knows just what we've seen in that photo. Were they actually Guild headstocks?

I can't see enough detail to claim that what I spot is a Guild.

I know that a lot of Chinese factories will take the specs give to them by US companies and make products using those specs intended for non-US markets. Since the debate is where are the guitars being made, unless there is a logo or G shield I missed we can't tell whether the guitars with the similar headstock are Guilds intended for the US and European markets or something else.

 

[adorshki]

Agree w/Adorshiki and the skeptics. I'm not what you would call a China expert. But I've been there many times. And I know how business works there. The Fender rep might have Chinese assurances, no doubt. But those aren't worth much.
But anything of high value is counterfeited in China.

Which harkens back to Southern Guild's post:

To add to the muddle. I actually have a guitar here, that was made in China, AND has the exact same shape headstock as a Guild. :shock:
Shaped as a Guild, ( a Guild F5ce actually) with a cutaway and Oval soundhole, Beautiful woods ( Rosewood w/spruce top) and excellent workmanship. It was not trying to pass as a Guild, It has clear labels as such, But very little info can be found about it. The brand name is Accord, and it says on the label "Made for Australian conditions". So, There are guitars out there with Guild shaped headstocks ( although, outside of this one here, I know of no others)

Actually, I have a strong suspicion that instrument may be an artifact of the Madeira period, since that body style was discontinued in '01, but started in early '90's during the second generation of Madeira production. Not sure when that ended, but it did and perhaps when it did there was leftover inventory that the Korean maker was at liberty to liquidate.
I could see any leftover product, perhaps incompleted instruments, coming into the possession of a Chinese maker for finishing and sale.
Kinda mind-boggling, when one really stops to think, how much international commerce there really is out there is and how many different entrepreneurs are always on the lookout for their next "one-shot deal". Just another batch of generic guitars for delivery somewhere on the Pacific Rim, to them....along with a boatload of other sporting goods and furniture...
Anybody here (besides Marc) ever stood next to a freighter at a pier and tried to comprehend just how much stuff could be put into just that one boat?
I have. :wink:
It's no wonder the paperwork for so much stuff like that is disposed of as soon as it's served its primary purpose: customs clearance and payment collection. :wink:

 

[marcellis]

For the Record:

If GAD allows factory tours for foreigners, let me know. I'll try to fly up there. I really hate going to China though. And I would be stunned if GAD allowed an American to visit & take pics of their factory operations.

I never miss an opportunity to avoid making a trip to China.
Of course, I only go there on business. So there is probably
good stuff I never see.

Where is the factory anyway? In the Shenzen/Guangzhou area?

 

[adorshki]

Grand Reward factory pics...see if you can spot some Guilds

I can't see enough detail to claim that what I spot is a Guild.

That's a good point. So far, I at least have been operating on the assumption that Don's original identification of Grand Reward as the assembly point is accurate. Gotta admit, it'd be nice to hear him confirm...but it does tend to lend weight to the photgraphic evidence we can see.

 

[southernGuild]

Guitar owners just want to know when and where their guitar was made. Maybe someday FMIC will see that providing such information, across the entire product line, is good customer service.

Yep, That pretty much nails it for me. Simple, basic info about the Gads, ( My GAD)for me, does enhance it's ownership. And , for me, the "when' it was made part was actually more important to me than "where'. I knew it was made in China when I bought it! :lol: Knowing 'roughly' where in China is enough for me. ( Grand Reward? Ok, Fine.) But, I tell you, I was very happy to get those darn Serial numbers decoded.
It's a beautiful and fine playing guitar on its own merits, and I dont feel the need to compare it to my USA built Guilds. It has it's own qualities, and, like many other folks, it led me right into buying the USA Guilds.
For me, thats a win all around.

As to that Guild look alike I have. It was a garage sale item, so no real background came with it. The Onboard electrics are very much late 80's - early 90's. I'll try to get a photo up here one day. But, Besides this one, I've never seen any other guitar with a Guild shaped headstock here in Aus, or elsewhere.

 

[southernGuild]

. I don't have to deal with it. I don't have to overcome it. I dont' have to embrace it. So I'm just moving on.

The above, Regarding your Guitar group......
Sorry to hear that Doc. Its funny, I've often wondered about that place you go on Thursdays, and if it were still up and running. I love the idea of that place!
Those Stones, That amazing garden, and Jim Bowser(?) Looks like a great place to gather and play guitar.
That video of the place you've shared was fantastic.
Sorry that it is now not what it was, but Hey, here's hoping that things can change, OR Like Charlie says, YOU can find and hold your place in it. I would think that you bring allot to that group, and that your absence would be sorely missed.

 

[charliea]

Looking at these, a couple of the Epi headstocks could pass for Guilds from behind, or from a distance.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ ... headstocks

 

[adorshki]

As to that Guild look alike I have. It was a garage sale item, so no real background came with it. The Onboard electrics are very much late 80's - early 90's. I'll try to get a photo up here one day. But, Besides this one, I've never seen any other guitar with a Guild shaped headstock here in Aus, or elsewhere.

Here's another idea that occurred to me: an opportunity to make a batch of guitars for an Australian customer came to the attention of the factory making Madeiras.
Customer wants to brand them "Accord" instead of "Madeira" (or maybe had to due to copyrights on the Madeira name, or some other legal detail)
Guild says "ok", we'll license the design details for that batch of parts and blueprints you want to use to make 'em, just make sure we get our end of the deal. ( :lol: )
That's really what it's all about from the business perspective, right?
So Australia gets some roses, er, Guilds, by another name.....

 

[Scratch]

If they're great guitars does it matter where they're made?

:wink: :wink:

Being a bit humorous (hopefully) and a bit sarcastic, too. But I did actually think this when the debate was raging...... When you buy American made guitars you usually pay a premium and get a pedigree. With the Chinese made guitars, you get an amazing bargain and save some money and you lose the pedigree. That's my take.

I agree!!! Wow too as It's a bit ironic that last night at our weekly pickin' session there was more time spent on 'drooling' over, picking over, comparing pricing, than there was playing. Our thursday nite session has suddenly been invaded by "guitarist"!!!! :? It's upsetting to my stomach to say the least. I don't know from whence they came but they were like a room full of politically correct, pontificating left brainers. The "players" are few and far between it seems. Somehow for some reason they have been systematically eliminated from our original group, not necessarily by design but by choice, and I believe I'm going to be the next one exit. I just want to be with folks who don't care what kind of guitar I'm playing or how unaccomplished I am.

Yes, before anyone says it; I feel inadequate in their presence. I don't have to deal with it. I don't have to overcome it. I dont' have to embrace it. So I'm just moving on.

Peace

So anyhow, Doc. When ya coming to Texas? :wink:

 

[CA-35]

The factory is extremely good at doing what they are told but if it is not specified, the factory tends towards the lowest cost solution.

My point exactly, which was debated in another thread.

Trying very hard not to be incendiary, and if you own a GAD and are happy then more power to you.

However, if Harley Davidson motorcycles were made outside the USA how many do you think they would sell?

 

[6L6]

Sorry, no sale.

To me REAL Guilds will always be those made in the USA.

That's not to say that GAD's are not a good value.

Bill