Not so fast...we have a problem with my M-20...unbelievable!

[Kitarkus]

print out all the "sold" listings from ebay and reverb.

good luck man.

Can you locate/lookup Reverb sold transaction histories?

 

[mavuser]

Can you locate/lookup Reverb sold transaction histories?

its a monthly average of asking and actual sale prices. Tex may know more.

so id ask obviously for the repair money back, gas money, interest, "and every penny i paid for the guitar, plus am keeping the guitar for myself (as it was worth more than what i paid...).

then ultimtely drop the interest and gas money demand.

so he buys you the guitar for the ebay/reverb price u paid, u keep the guitar, and he fixed it, broke it/fixed it agian for free..

u do not contact the better business bureaus, Martin, online bad reviews...

hes already made 2 big mistakes, give him a chance to get out of it I suppose, maybe youll get a free guitar out of it.

he could also refund u every penny u paid him plus ebay/reverb PLUS 500 (300...) and he keeps the guitar...

 

[mavuser]

"u break it u buy it" not rocket science

 

[mavuser]

also if u gave it to him that way and asked for a neck reset, he would have documented the previous neck damage/repair...one meeeeeelion percent. ok going into starwars, good luck dude! we will get u a keeper in the end, this one or otherwise. u may need a real appraisal, we can help.

 

[Rayk]

And this one also from Dec. 7. I posted a thread on december 7th with these and other photos in my excitement...it was a flickr link.

Ok cool it’s clear the damage was not present before that’s what I needed to see .

Again my biggest peeve is not coming forth with the damage , as to guild being hard In some cases to break free to me it’s a matter of experience and patience. Hide glue might easier to steam but not after multiple years of aging which just a guess on my part . Improper locating of the joint in the steaming process and impatience could of caused the result . But that’s just blood guess work .
Thing is it’s done now just do what you have to .

 

[Jim]

It is hard to tell from the photos but is there a slight possibility that could be damage to the finish from escaping steam when the luthier steamed the neck off? On the first few necks I reset on cheap guitars the finish was removed or discolored in the same area in a similar pattern. Just thinking out loud. I agree with the others that however it happened it looks like a pretty amateur cover up. It could have been done right and it would have been invisible.

Jim

 

[AcornHouse]

Don’t I remember you mentioning on your other post that he was supposed to put in a bone nut, and didn’t? That’s a double strike. Plus, by offering the cash discount, he basically kept it off the books to avoid declaring the sales tax “collected”.
You might mention that you intend to contact Martin about his practices. There’s a lot of sketchy going on.

 

[bobouz]

Wow. It's stories like this that keep me from ever having my guitars worked on by anyone - the last time was in the late '70s. Proximity to the big city & the difficulty in being able to develop an ongoing trusted relationship with a luthier is the other factor.

The way I get around it, is that I don't buy a guitar with issues unless I'm sure I can do the work myself. If the day ever comes where I absolutely have to have someone else work on one of my instruments, I'd be looking for solid testimonials & a thorough portfolio of the luthier's work.

Best of luck in getting this resolved. What would seem fair to me would be that he of course reimburse the repair costs, and then purchase the instrument at the Reverb price you paid. He can then sell the instrument himself & show off his repair skills to perspective customers - or not.

 

[Kitarkus]

Don’t I remember you mentioning on your other post that he was supposed to put in a bone nut, and didn’t? That’s a double strike. Plus, by offering the cash discount, he basically kept it off the books to avoid declaring the sales tax “collected”.
You might mention that you intend to contact Martin about his practices. There’s a lot of sketchy going on.

Yes. "bone nut replacement $50" is on the work order...he forgot to do it. The cash deal....well....He had told me that he doesn't accept credit cards and quoted me $665. I figured if he doesn't accept credit cards why not ask him if there is a discount for cash. He said "yes...we could do $600 cash". I opted to save $65 and pay cash as opposed to writing a check. I didn't think much was too sketchy at the time....after all....he is the sole Authorized Martin Service center in my city.

 

[Kitarkus]

Wow. It's stories like this that keep me from ever having my guitars worked on by anyone - the last time was in the late '70s. Proximity to the big city & the difficulty in being able to develop an ongoing trusted relationship with a luthier is the other factor.

The way I get around it, is that I don't buy a guitar with issues unless I'm sure I can do the work myself. If the day ever comes where I absolutely have to have someone else work on one of my instruments, I'd be looking for solid testimonials & a thorough portfolio of the luthier's work.

Best of luck in getting this resolved. What would seem fair to me would be that he of course reimburse the repair costs, and then purchase the instrument at the Reverb price you paid. He can then sell the instrument himself & show off his repair skills to perspective customers - or not.

I suppose if there is anything good to come from this...it is that others learn from my experience. I intend to demand a full refund for the entire repair costs. If for any reason he is unwilling, I plan to inform him that I will be immediately pursuing reimbursement for both repair costs paid and for the cost that I'd paid for the guitar...and in a manner that will be a matter of public record. If that means that this guitar becomes his property...so be it. If he is unwilling to refund my money and I am forced to pursue the refund through legal means, I will be certain to discuss the specifics of my experience with those who I believe this person would least like for me to do so. I do not intend to show any mercy to this guy who purposefully attempted to hide this from me as opposed to admitting the issue and attempting to resolve it like a gentleman. I will be 100% certain that he will be treated as he has treated me.

I have looked at my cumulative documentation including photos, time stamps, delivery dates/times, dated repair bid, & payment receipt and it seems to me that I have a very solid set of evidence showing a clear before/after....and within a very tight time-frame. The neck heel exhibits extensive cosmetic work, crack(s) repair, and finish over-spray. If for any reason I am unable to obtain the monetary satisfaction that I am seeking, I intend to make this experience public to a degree that provides me an enumerable degree of personal satisfaction.

Moving forward: I'll have to re-evaluate the types of guitars that I purchase. I will be left with only one high quality and reputable guitar repair shop within a remotely reasonable geographic area and they are quite good but very expensive. Not a problem for me though...I'll simply have to be more discerning with my GAS.

 

[Kitarkus]

It is hard to tell from the photos but is there a slight possibility that could be damage to the finish from escaping steam when the luthier steamed the neck off? On the first few necks I reset on cheap guitars the finish was removed or discolored in the same area in a similar pattern. Just thinking out loud. I agree with the others that however it happened it looks like a pretty amateur cover up. It could have been done right and it would have been invisible.

Jim

I suppose anything is possible....but nope. It appears very much to me that this neck has been broken and broken badly....then painstakingly repaired and finished with a heavy handed airbrush spray to cover the area. I've added another photo for clarity. If an up-close and personal eyes on inspection leaves any doubt, my macro photo with flash leaves me no doubts. I plan to be in an area with a very reputable luthier in the near future and I hope for him to serve as my written corroboration as part of my evidence....it will kill two birds with one stone....as he would be someone whom my repair person would least like to see this botch job.

I can say....that it appears that his repair work has "settled in" since I've picked up the guitar. Of course it could be simply that 'now I know it's there'....but now the cracks/repairs are clearly visible to the naked eye. In my mind's eye....this looks different to me even this morning than it had yesterday evening.

I've calmed myself emotionally if only a bit as there is nothing I could possibly do to 'undo' what has happened here. It is what it is. Now this is simply a mission to obtain satisfaction and I intend to do so. There ain't a repair tech in the world that would work on this neck in the future without a big 'well...I'll do it....but given this prior break...the outcome is very uncertain'.

 

[Stuball48]

Wish for you a satisfied solution and hope there comes sunshine after such a dark cloud. Glad you have calmed a bit.

 

[Jim]

Those new pictures really show how horrible the break is. The neck may have been dropped or fell off the table after removal. Sorry that you are having to deal with this!

 

[mavuser]

why are u only asking for the repair refund and not for the price of the guitar purchase? that doesnt sound like such a sweet deal in your favor. that is one outcome to possibly settle on in the end- not what u ask for in the beginning!

and write letters to Martin, and whoever else. phone calls and verbal words are a waste of your time.

take this guy to court man. your guitar is now worth less than what u paid for it, pre repairs, just to be crystal clear.

 

[Kitarkus]

why are u only asking for the repair refund and not for the price of the guitar purchase? that doesnt sound like such a sweet deal in your favor. that is one outcome to possibly settle on in the end- not what u ask for in the beginning!

and write letters to Martin, and whoever else. phone calls and verbal words are a waste of your time.

take this guy to court man. your guitar is now worth less than what u paid for it, pre repairs, just to be crystal clear.

Oh I'm with you. I'm walking lightly while carrying a big stick. It is a bad situation...and I estimate that although you are 100% correct, it will be difficult to prove in a court of law a precise monetary loss in market value for the guitar. I'm not looking for a 'sweet deal'...I'm looking to get out of this with the skin on my back intact. While cooking eggs this morning I had an epiphany that gives me additional supportive evidence should I need to take him to court. He left me a voice mail message the day prior to me picking up the guitar (now saved on my computer) indicating that (1) the guitar was complete (2) instructions/time/location for my pickup (3) and some words about "how good it turned out".

My intention is to give him the opportunity to refund the full repair fee and call this done. My current feeling is that I could consider having $794 purchase price in this guitar in as-is condition to be fair/reasonable. I would never have purchased this guitar if it had a neck break of any kind...and I would never purchase any guitar with a neck break. I am in the situation that I am in. I have it on professional advice that the quickest/easiest and minimum legal satisfaction most likely to be obtained in court would be the refund for repair costs paid. Should he for any reason be unwilling to meet my request for refund I will let a judge determine whether he owes me for all of my costs and expenses or just for the cost for repairs. I am now completely confident in the evidence that I have collected in support of my claim with original listing from my purchase, UPS receipt for pickup on same day that I dropped off for repairs, time dated photos 3 hours prior to my drop-off for repairs, dated quote for itemized repairs at time of drop off, claim ticket, itemized repair receipts, time dated photos of the neck break the day following my pick-up, and a guitar that clearly exhibits an extensively repaired neck break which has been disguised extensively....with accompanying receipt for 'neck reset' and without any disclosure or fees for repairs of any neck cracks/breaks. Now I also have a voice mail message from the shop verifying the date/time of my pick-up and his proclamation that the guitar 'is looking really good'. I will obtain the professional written opinion from a reputable guitar professional as to how/if the neck break adversely impacts the market value and/or marketability of the guitar. Add to all that...my 'diary' of sorts is forever immortalized on this thread...complete with time stamps and photos.

I figure his pride will prevent him from fessing up to this neck break after he has gone through so much obvious effort to hide it from me or likely will not be smart enough to take my offer and man-up with a simple refund. He'll surely try to call it fake news...but methinks I have so much supportive evidence in my favor. Should he be unwilling to refund me I will surely be calling Martin and many other local shops along with creating a display of my evidence online for the viewing pleasure of the local guitar buying public.

Although it may not seem so....I'm taking no pleasure in this. I am upset about the guitar....but I am damn angry about being duped in this fashion. I will not let this go easily and without fight. Firstly, I wish to give him the opportunity to respond to my findings. His answers will quickly tell me how far I will need to be taking this drama. It is with complete certainty that he broke this neck at some point during his possession of the guitar. The angrier that I am...the harder I bite.

 

[walrus]

Good luck! In a perfect world, he admits it, and gives you everything you want. Then you can move on. The other option will be a hassle, but I am 100% in agreement with your approach.

walrus

 

[mavuser]

just to be clear i am trying to help u, not hurt you.

about 95 percent of what you have wrote is spot on.

$794 is a little on the high end for what you currently have in your possesion. tone, feel, playability, structural integrity(???) may actually all be unchanged, but try to sell it that way- it is worth somewhere between $600-$800 (does it have a case?) and again, even at that price, would you have bought it in the first place that way? It would be worth about triple that in the shape it was in, had a professional restoration been completed, without issue.

again, paying $794 for what you have right now is a final result I could live with, albeit not my first choice perfect world result...but thats not all you ask for on day one, I definitely disagree with the advice you have been given, id seek a second professional opinion, if u need one, and go full throttle on the evidence and small claims court. document everything u can from the reverb transaction, all the positive feedback, anything u can get from the seller, eveything possible. id write an email to Martin now, or anyone else you plan on having in your corner. if he has not made good on you as of right now this moment, it is on like donkey kong. there is not much middle ground here. if you are going to "try to be nice about it" and let weeks and weeks pass without taking any real legal action, I would not expect results as good as if you took immediate action. write letters and emails today. print out this tread from LTG and copy/paste it over. just attack from all fronts immediately. put everything in writing. dont wait. you have a pretty clear case, let the judge decide what is fair (especially if u are willing to take such a hit).

I am out. write a couple emails and hit send. then give it a rest and enjoy your holiday. youll feel better. believe me. i think it will turn out fine and you seem like a super level headed down to earth reasonable person. understand the defendant in this case does not share those qualities. extreme circumstances call for extreme action to be taken. you will have better news for us in 2018, my friend. cheers!

 

[Kitarkus]

Mavuser.... understood and thank you for taking the time to assist.

 

[davismanLV]

Oh wow, that's really a shame. So sorry to hear (and see) of this mess. Guitar necks can be super difficult to get off at times and Guilds are known to be problematic. Accidents can and do happen. This might have happened during the removal, or after. No way to really know. But the huge problem is the deception and lack of disclosure. That's a creepy thing to do. If he had been open about the incident from the start and tried to make things right, I'd be more inclined to go easy on him. However, that's not the case. Good luck dealing with this! I'm really sorry to hear a story like this, my friend. Keep us posted on your results as you work through the process...... :grief:

 

[jedzep]

You can't see with Xray eyes, and if it's more of a chip knocked off than a chunk, you still have a great player. It would be helpful if the luthier could fess up to at least let you know how much mass is actually separated, so you can assess further.

There are guys who can make this repair invisible, should it be a non structural injury.

I empathize, and feel your stress. This crap always seems to happen on weekends or holidays where you have to take a deep breath and wait until the next business day. Wish you a good resolution, as someone who only buys vintage 'with issues'.