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[bluesypicky]

I'd be lying if I didn't admit I was really disappointed to know they've priced the F30 & F30-R near $2K.
I'll stop whining about the new Guild pricing now (really!), but that just bums me out.

Map for the trad F30 is ~$2100 and the map for the STD F30 for ~$1800?
I am a little dissappointed as well. Unless my maps are wrong.

+3

 

[dapmdave]

But map is the price you will see advertised on Internet dealer websites like elderly and musicians friend?

Should be. Some sites will actually identify the MAP price clearly as "MAP"

Dave

 

[taabru45]

Does this make my 2009 D50 obsolete now :shock: :shock: :roll: Steffan

 

[Bing k]

Does this make my 2009 D50 obsolete now :shock: :shock: :roll: Steffan

I would certainly think not :!:

 

[Ridgemont]

Does this make my 2009 D50 obsolete now :shock: :shock: :roll: Steffan

Nah, I am sure the specs between the two will be significantly different. But so should the price, which may or may not be the case at this point. A potential $300 difference between the two is nothing to be proud of or write home about. But we will see.

 

[taabru45]

Maybe its a 'collector' now.....new vintage??? :lol: :lol: Gathering value as we speak... :wink: Steffan

 

[Bill Ashton]

Well, remember this is an American made guitar, not an import.

The mind fades, but I seem to remember that the most obvious thing is the satin finished neck. The guitar body is all glossy nitro, but a slightly different system so that it does not have to be rebuffed a thousand times by the factory before shipping...the overall appearance is plainer-jane than the "traditional" series, but cannot remember what else if different.

Edit: Yes I can now, these guitars are bound in Italian Ivoroid, so that this series actually has more expensive binding than the traditional series...the material was approved for these, but not for the then current range.

My first impression, looking across the room at a D40/50 from the side was "that looks like a Taylor :shock: :shock: :shock:

The winter 2010 price list has the F30 at $2699.99; again, memory may be cloudy, but I seem to remember a NH F30 in our favorite local music store for around $15-1600...correct me here if you can, Chaz

 

[devellis]

Are the specs for these available anywhere? A near-score on a trade (a mandolin for a Gibson L-200) has got me thinking "maple jumbo" these days, and a Standard series F50 may be an intriguing possibility. The difference between Standard and Traditional would be a factor. Ideally, from my perspective, the Standard would be comparable in materials and design but with less bling. If that were the case, a smaller gap in price would seem reasonable. If they down-grade materials (e.g., Sitka top instead of red spruce), I would expect a larger price decline. Satin neck doesn't bother me in the least. I actually prefer it, if it's well done. And I really don't have anything at all against Sitka, but it costs less than red spruce so it should make a lower selling price possible. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[fungusyoung]

The winter 2010 price list has the F30 at $2699.99; again, memory may be cloudy, but I seem to remember a NH F30 in our favorite local music store for around $15-1600...correct me here if you can, Chaz

Are dealers really knocking $300- 500 off MAP? I suppose 40% off MSRP isn't too unorthodox, but I thought there was typically little wiggle room off of MAP. I'm not a haggler & have no interest in playing the game, but $15- 1600 is much more reasonable than $1900. Though, it's still a far cry from being able to pick up a late 90's Westerly F30 in great shape for $750 or so.

 

[Bill Ashton]

Well, I know it was under 2K, because my first thought was that it was an awful expensive GAD...then realized it was the real McCoy.

Frankly, I did not care for the specimen myself, however Scott M really made her sing, sounded great in a 10 ft radius in front of him

 

[Bing k]

Are the specs for these available anywhere?

F-50 Standard
Colors: (801) Blonde
Body Style: Jumbo
Top: Solid Sitka Spruce
Bracing: Scalloped Red Spruce
Back and Sides: Arched Laminated Maple Back, Solid Maple Sides
Scale Length: 25 5/8" (651 mm)
Neck: Mahogany
Fingerboard: Rosewood
Fingerboard Radius: 12" Radius (305 mm)
Number of Frets: 20
Position Inlays: Pearl Dot Inlays
Nut: 1 11/16" (43 mm), Bone
Bridge: Rosewood
Saddle: Bone Saddle
Bridge Pins: Bone Bridge Pins
Body Finish: High Gloss Lacquer
Neck Finish: Satin Lacquer
Pickguard: Tortoise Shell
Hardware: Chrome
Machine Heads: Gotoh® Die-Cast
Strings: D'Addario® EXP 17 Coated Phosphor Bronze, (Gauges
.013-.056)
Case: Deluxe Hardshell Case

 

[Ridgemont]

Thanks Bing.

Based on the specs, it seems that they are still throwing in some quality parts such as Gotoh tuners and bone nut/saddle. This could justify a price higher that the Martin -15 and -16series and the Taylor 3 series. But keep in mind that these guitars are the target competition. I would rather see equal or similar prices by cutting out more some added features such as a bone nut. I can get a 000-16RGT for $1050 at GC and I would be inclined to buy an F30R Standard for a little more, but not $750 like the MAPs are suggesting. What is the point of buying an F30 STD for $1800 when I can drive 1 mile to my local shop and buy a much much nicer F30 traditional for $1999.

 

[devellis]

Bing, thanks much for posting the specs. Looks like an interesting guitar. Well worth considering.

 

[FNG]

Are the specs for these available anywhere?

F-50 Standard
Colors: (801) Blonde
Body Style: Jumbo
Top: Solid Sitka Spruce
Bracing: Scalloped Red Spruce
Back and Sides: Arched Laminated Maple Back, Solid Maple Sides
Scale Length: 25 5/8" (651 mm)
Neck: Mahogany
Fingerboard: Rosewood
Fingerboard Radius: 12" Radius (305 mm)
Number of Frets: 20
Position Inlays: Pearl Dot Inlays
Nut: 1 11/16" (43 mm), Bone
Bridge: Rosewood
Saddle: Bone Saddle
Bridge Pins: Bone Bridge Pins
Body Finish: High Gloss Lacquer
Neck Finish: Satin Lacquer
Pickguard: Tortoise Shell
Hardware: Chrome
Machine Heads: Gotoh® Die-Cast
Strings: D'Addario® EXP 17 Coated Phosphor Bronze, (Gauges
.013-.056)
Case: Deluxe Hardshell Case

Unbound neck? What type of body binding do these have?

Braced for mediums...interesting...looking forward to some actual pics..

 

[Bing k]

ivoroid body binding

 

[fronobulax]

but I thought there was typically little wiggle room off of MAP.

Minimum Advertised Price. A dealer can certainly sell for less than that price but you may have to ask them. If the manufacturer sets a minimum sales price then they are getting close to violating U.S. anti-trust laws.

The rule of thumb seems to be that a prospective buyer should expect 40% off of the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MRSP or "list") to be a guitar's sale price and get that price more often than not. If the MAP is greater than 60% of the MSRP then I would expect wiggle room.

I don't like to haggle but most dealers can either get you 40% off of MSRP or convince you that they are offering some services that justify a slightly higher price. Some dealers upgrade the case or throw in straps or strings or set the guitar up to their specifications before sale or buff out the fingerprints of the folks who played it before you, for example.

 

[Ridgemont]

Minimum Advertised Price. A dealer can certainly sell for less than that price but you may have to ask them. If the manufacturer sets a minimum sales price then they are getting close to violating U.S. anti-trust laws.

The rule of thumb seems to be that a prospective buyer should expect 40% off of the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MRSP or "list") to be a guitar's sale price and get that price more often than not. If the MAP is greater than 60% of the MSRP then I would expect wiggle room.

I don't like to haggle but most dealers can either get you 40% off of MSRP or convince you that they are offering some services that justify a slightly higher price. Some dealers upgrade the case or throw in straps or strings or set the guitar up to their specifications before sale or buff out the fingerprints of the folks who played it before you, for example.

Ok, sounds reasonable. For the sake of discussion, we can use this as the following example (with a couple of assumptions). A Ct F30 has an MSRP of ~$2700, and after 40% off, one would ideally be able to take it home for $1620. Lets assume that the Standard Series F30 (mahogany) has the lowest MSRP (from the range given by Bing) of $2500. One should be able to take it home for $1500 after a 40% discount. The difference between the two would be $120. The minimal difference between the two does not seem that dramatic.

Let us compare, the % difference between MSRP of the Std F30 and the Trad F30 is 7.4%. The % difference between a Martin 000-18 and a 000-18GE is 35.6% and the % difference in MAP is roughly the same. This is the closest comparison I could find for 2 similar but different guitars from the same manufacturer.

My point is this: The guitars are similar but different with the Standard Series having significant downgrades. The MSRP/List/MAP/real take home price between the two lines are too similar for me and probably others to justify buying the less expensive model. There needs to be a bigger difference in MSRP.

 

[fronobulax]

The guitars are similar but different with the Standard Series having significant downgrades.

I can't fault your analysis but what I recall while drinking the Kool Aid at LMG 2010 was that the Standard Series was supposed to be "different" rather than just fill a price niche. I recall statements about "better ways to do things" that were not generally accepted by purchasers of "traditional" Guilds or guitars. Other than the finish I cannot recall what those were but there were others.

 

[Ridgemont]

The guitars are similar but different with the Standard Series having significant downgrades.

I can't fault your analysis but what I recall while drinking the Kool Aid at LMG 2010 was that the Standard Series was supposed to be "different" rather than just fill a price niche. I recall statements about "better ways to do things" that were not generally accepted by purchasers of "traditional" Guilds or guitars. Other than the finish I cannot recall what those were but there were others.

Believe me Frono, I want the Kool Aid too. If their goal is to redefine/reinvent old guitar manufacturing practices and the end result being something slightly more affordable, then I get that. The Standard Series is going to include 2 models that haven't been released in quite some time. That, I think we can all agree is very exciting. I do think the best way to settle my concern is to A/B them both and make up my own mind. If the Std and Trad sound, play, and feel different but of equal quality, then I would choose the one I like best.

But at the end of the day, the bottom line is $$$, at least with the higher ups. Making something more affordable and more accessible for us common folks is a key factor for sustainability. At least companies like Taylor and Martin have adopted this model. Look at the release of the Martin 1-series just in time for the recession.

 

[Bing k]

There needs to be a bigger difference in MSRP.

As we speak, now there are different numbers to plug into the formula.
We just received word that the Traditional series will receive a price increase Oct 1