Question about tuners on New Hartford 12-strings

[devellis]

I've seen headstock shots of the new 12-strings coming out of Connecticut and I've noticed that the tuners have a slot in the tuning post. What's that about? Is there still the customary hole through the post or is the slot intended as an alternative way of attaching the string? In all my years of messing with stringed instruments, I've never encountered that particular type of tuner and was wondering if anyone could explain the slot and its function. I'd welcome your insights.

 

[chazmo]

I've seen headstock shots of the new 12-strings coming out of Connecticut and I've noticed that the tuners have a slot in the tuning post. What's that about? Is there still the customary hole through the post or is the slot intended as an alternative way of attaching the string? In all my years of messing with stringed instruments, I've never encountered that particular type of tuner and was wondering if anyone could explain the slot and its function. I'd welcome your insights.

Interesting. These are Gotoh open-back tuners... Do they use a slot (rather than a hole) on their other products? I haven't seen that before either, Bob. I wonder if anyone has a close-up of the exact tuner -- frankly a slot sounds a little easier than a hole to thread and then wind.

 

[iJamF47M]

Locking tuners have the slot in the peg head as you describe. The post locks itself when wound. The slot is to release the post head from the string using a penny to change strings. I know it's kind of an electric thing but I can see the real need for especially on a 12 string where so many posts are tighly packed in there.

I'd like somebody to give me a good reason as to why locking post tuners haven't rendered standard ones obsolete. Tradition? I guess the benefits are obvious to me. Fast and easy string changes, no wraps on the post for a clean look and no excess string to stretch affecting tuning. Aesthetically, the tuners look the same except for the little slot as the only give away clue.

iJam

 

[chazmo]

iJam, are you saying that's what these are? Locking post tuners on an acoustic?

 

[gilded]

Bob, I don't know what's on the new Guild 12s, but are you familiar with vintage Fender-style kluson keys?

They have slotted string posts, as well as a hole drilled down into the length of the string post, so the string can be:
1) dropped into the hole,
2) bent over the edge of the slot and
3) wrapped around the outside edge of the post until the string until the string reaches pitch.

I think I've seen keys like that on old Rickenbacker and Mosrite six strings, as well as Fenders. When you get used to those keys, a re-string becomes a lot quicker, as in 10 minutes versus 30 minutes. Your mileage may very.

The advantage is that the tuners are light, which helps control weight with a 12 string headstock, especially compared to mini-Grovers/Schallers or locking tuners. Of course, if I guessed wrong, well then, never mind.....

 

[iJamF47M]

iJam, are you saying that's what these are? Locking post tuners on an acoustic?

Can't really say without see it, just guessing. Locking post tuners on an acoustic? Why not?

iJam

 

[devellis]

This is the best picture I could find:

Hopefully, it gives you a better sense of what I was talking about. I'm strictly an acoustic guy so I'm not familiar with the Fender-style locking tuners. Are these similar to those?

 

[chazmo]

Oh, neat, Bob.

No, those aren't locking tuners.

That's a big slot! I'll bet it works just as well as the usual needle hole.

 

[dapmdave]

Looks like a miniature bass guitar tuner, to me.

Dave

 

[adorshki]

Oh, neat, Bob.
No, those aren't locking tuners.
That's a big slot! I'll bet it works just as well as the usual needle hole.

That might explain why they went to the openbacks...are all the openbacks that way, or at least the ones that folks have seen so far?

 

[dogman]

Just noticed that on mine, very observant I must admit. They remind me of the 60's 70's Fender F tuners. I prefer this mounting method. No holes in the fingers when restringing as the string end goes into the center hole.

 

[devellis]

So, if I'm understanding this correctly. you stick the string end straight down into the hole in the shaft, bend it over so that it's lying in the slot and wind 'er up? I guess that means you have to pre-cut the string to avoid having a wad of string around the shaft when you bring it up to pitch. If I have it right, this might take a little getting used to but sounds like it would be a good arrangement once you get accustomed to it. On my other guitars, I wind a couple of turns around the shaft, then push the string end through the hole. This sounds strange if you've never done it but is actually a very neat and secure method for stringing. These slot-end tuners would probably need a modified approach. In theory, I guess you could wrap, trim, and insert but I'd wonder about the slack being taken up properly.

None of this is really a problem, just a change that would take a bit of adaptation.

 

[pickoid]

My Fender Tele has those "hole in the middle and slot" tuners. I really like them - once the strings are on, that is. It makes for a really neat looking headstock, with no sharp strings ends sticking out to poke you. However, I find them kind of a pain to restring. You have to get the string cut to the right length before you put it on. It helps to take the old string off and use it as a rough guide for how long to cut the new one.

 

[fronobulax]

On my other guitars, I wind a couple of turns around the shaft, then push the string end through the hole.

My B-4 has slots but the other basses don't. I string them the same way so the slot makes things just a little easier than the hole. But I don't try anything as complicated as winding before I thread the string.

(The link is to a picture of my B-4. Seems to me the TRC is still upside down. The seller still has pictures of it on his web site but I won't leech on his bandwidth by embedding the image.)

 

[dogman]

My Fender Tele has those "hole in the middle and slot" tuners. I really like them - once the strings are on, that is. It makes for a really neat looking headstock, with no sharp strings ends sticking out to poke you. However, I find them kind of a pain to restring. You have to get the string cut to the right length before you put it on. It helps to take the old string off and use it as a rough guide for how long to cut the new one.

As a rule I usually cut the strings 2 peg lengths up the headstock. You can go closer for the low strings because of their thickness. On a 12'er you might want to go a little longer than 2 pegs because the pegs are a little closer to each other than on a 6 string.

 

[chazmo]

Oh, neat, Bob.
No, those aren't locking tuners.
That's a big slot! I'll bet it works just as well as the usual needle hole.

That might explain why they went to the openbacks...are all the openbacks that way, or at least the ones that folks have seen so far?

Al, good question. My read is that these Gotoh tuners are a custom design, but I'm not sure about that. If they are, and Guild/Fender is writing the specs, it might not be useful to compare them with what Gotoh sells on the open market. I am interested now in what they're doing on the 6-string front as well. I didn't pick up on this when I saw pictures of the 6s... Can someone tell us if those have slots too?

 

[devellis]

It's really hard to find good pictures that let you see the tuners. Tho koa F-50 shown on the NAMM video has custom, open-back tuners that do not have the slots. Other guitars appear not to have the slots but it's hard to tell because the resolution of the video isn't very high (you can't really see them clearly on the 12's either, but I think they're there).

I looked at another picture of the F-512 headstock (from the 2010 NAMM catalog) under a magnifier and, definitely, the string end is stuck into a hole in the end of the tuning post shaft, bent down so that it lays in the slot, and wound around the post as the string is tuned up -- just like on the bass posted in this thread. The catalog doesn't have headstock enlargements for any other models, so I couldn't make a comparison. The smaller pictures of 6-string Traditional models don't appear to have the slots, but this is by no means definitive.

So, based on what little I can garner from available images, I'd say the slotted tuners appear to be exclusive to the 12-strings, although, again, this is not a definitive determination. If folks check out New Hartford Guilds in person, this might be something for them to look for.

 

[jazzmang]

None of my 6-string CT Guilds have these tuners, so they are more than likely relegated to the 12-string models only, if at all.

I don't have any nearby Guild dealers with 12-stringers in stock, otherwise I'd run and check them out!

 

[chazmo]

It's really hard to find good pictures that let you see the tuners. Tho koa F-50 shown on the NAMM video has custom, open-back tuners that do not have the slots. Other guitars appear not to have the slots but it's hard to tell because the resolution of the video isn't very high (you can't really see them clearly on the 12's either, but I think they're there).

I looked at another picture of the F-512 headstock (from the 2010 NAMM catalog) under a magnifier and, definitely, the string end is stuck into a hole in the end of the tuning post shaft, bent down so that it lays in the slot, and wound around the post as the string is tuned up -- just like on the bass posted in this thread. The catalog doesn't have headstock enlargements for any other models, so I couldn't make a comparison. The smaller pictures of 6-string Traditional models don't appear to have the slots, but this is by no means definitive.

So, based on what little I can garner from available images, I'd say the slotted tuners appear to be exclusive to the 12-strings, although, again, this is not a definitive determination. If folks check out New Hartford Guilds in person, this might be something for them to look for.

I've added a new question for LMG 2010!

 

[devellis]

Chazmo, good move. They'll have a definitive answer.