Questions about a "New" 2007 F-47m

[E-Type]

I found a 2007 Tacoma F-47m on G-Base. I have talked to the seller and it is supposedly new in that they got it from Guild in 2007 and it has been hanging in their store for 16 years, awaiting a buyer (me?). Here is the weird part, it does not have a D-Tar Lock-and-Load pickup endpin, but it does have some sort of pickup system. They guy told me it has piezo and there is a battery pouch attached to the neck block, but no tone or volume control. Did Guild offer an alternative to the D-Tar in 2007?

What is the going rate for one of these (or the later New Hartford versions)? Am I right in fearing that any guitar sitting on the hanger for 16 years is likely a dud?

 

[chazmo]

The F-47 isn't listed in the 2006 Tacoma catalog, but most of the guitars are listed with D-TAR Wavelength pickups. Whether or not they were paired with the Load 'n lock system is unclear, but load 'n lock was available then. The D-40 was offered iwth a factory Fishman Matrix Natural 1 pickup system. That could be what's on your F-47. Don't know for certain. There is also the possibility that the store is not being truthful about it being NOS. I.e., some prior customer may have installed a different pickup system. But, let's assume they're not lying...

Are you asking what the price should be? Well, there are any number of reasons why a store wouldn't have sold a NOS item. Its price would certainly be higher than a used item, but whether it's worth it at this point (rather than a used guitar) is hard to say. Is it unblemished from its years in the store? Is it in good shape or has it been mistreated in the store? Lots to think about.

 

[E-Type]

The F-47 isn't listed in the 2006 Tacoma catalog, but most of the guitars are listed with D-TAR Wavelength pickups. Whether or not they were paired with the Load 'n lock system is unclear, but load 'n lock was available then. The D-40 was offered iwth a factory Fishman Matrix Natural 1 pickup system. That could be what's on your F-47. Don't know for certain. There is also the possibility that the store is not being truthful about it being NOS. I.e., some prior customer may have installed a different pickup system. But, let's assume they're not lying...

Are you asking what the price should be? Well, there are any number of reasons why a store wouldn't have sold a NOS item. Its price would certainly be higher than a used item, but whether it's worth it at this point (rather than a used guitar) is hard to say. Is it unblemished from its years in the store? Is it in good shape or has it been mistreated in the store? Lots to think about.

Yep, I been thinking a lot of the same things. Mainly, most guitars don’t survive 16 years hanging in a shop without a few bumps and bruises.

 

[jeffcoop]

Very odd. My 2007 F40 does have the Load and Lock D-TAR pickup, and I wasn't aware of Guild offering other pickup options in that year (which doesn't mean they didn't, just that I didn't know about it).

I've seen occasional reports of older "new" guitars in shops that didn't hang on the walls but simply got lost in the mix somewhere in hte back. Indeed, my F40 (which I bought as NOS in 2014 or so) was supposedly one of those, and arrived as if brand new. After 16 years, though, I'd be at least a bit suspicious of claims that a guitar was NOS, particularly if it had a pickup different from the one that I know Guild was offering as a factory install in 2007.

 

[kostask]

E-Type, if you can get the guitar's serial number and let us Know what it is, we can probably figure out what year the guitar is. That would also allow us to determine, from the catalogs, what pickups were factory installed.

I believe that there were non-Lock-'n-Load DTAR pickup systems also used on Guilds for a brief while before the Lock-'n-Load came about. My recall could be faulty, though. I do know that DTAR did at one time, offer a Wavelength Duo system that used a pair of AAA batteries in a common pouch that you'd attach to the inside of the guitar somewhere with a velcro patch, that eventually evolved into the Lock-'n-Load. Seymour Duncan, who now sells most of the DTAR designed pickup systems, still has the pouch version available.

 

[SFIV1967]

E-Type, if you can get the guitar's serial number and let us Know what it is, we can probably figure out what year the guitar is.

She seems to be from 2007 as the store said, I looked at the label but the letter is invisible to me...So can't see the "K" I'm looking for.



But the D-TAR wavelength system for that vintage seems to be correct. No Load 'N Lock.

https://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/D_TAR_Wave_Length.pdf

Ralf

 

[jeffcoop]

Well, *someone* put a Load & Lock DTAR pickup in my 2007 F40! Serial number begins TK.

 

[adorshki]

Well, *someone* put a Load & Lock DTAR pickup in my 2007 F40! Serial number begins TK.

Probably a "running change". You KNOW they never pegged spec changes to New Year's Day.
Also introduced dual action truss rods, single-truss 12-string necks, and a new-fangled neck attachment system in Tacoma. A veritable hotbed of subversive design theorists living without calendars.

 

[chazmo]

Well, *someone* put a Load & Lock DTAR pickup in my 2007 F40! Serial number begins TK.

It was in the 2006 catalog so it was definitely available in 2007, Jeff. Probably an option at that point.

 

[kostask]

E-Type, before you go ripping that already installed DTAR pickup system out, if a good pickup sound is important to you, know that a microphone internal to the body can be added to the system. If you open the DTAR preamp box, there is actually a provision to connect the leads from another transducer into the preamp, and there is also a "mix" control inside the the preamp box, or it may be a resistor value that can be changed, to balance the UST with the added transducer. I suppose that other transducers (bridgeplate transducers like the K&K, or even a magnetic pickup could also be used, depending on their outputs being able to be balanced). The DTAR Wavelength is one of the better UST systems around, as it runs on 18V (3V from the two batteries is boosted up to 18V) vs. the more common 9V, and therefore has more input range to fight the well known piezo transducer "quack".

 

[E-Type]

She seems to be from 2007 as the store said, I looked at the label but the letter is invisible to me...So can't see the "K" I'm looking for.



But the D-TAR wavelength system for that vintage seems to be correct. No Load 'N Lock.

https://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/D_TAR_Wave_Length.pdf

Ralf

Whatever is in there, I would check it out before removing it. But thanks for the explanation of the options. It actually makes sense that it might be one of these. For me, I am glad to know that it does not have a 7/8" hole to deal with.

Still, when the guy told me it was $2,300 + shipping, but they would make me a deal and do the shipping for $50 (so $2,350), I just had to SMH. It's been sitting there for 16 years ("people don't come to out shop for Guilds") and the market price is closer to $1,700. yes, it is "new", but guitars get knocked around a bit in stores. He is supposed to send pics, but hasn't yet. The bigger issue may be that I was told the neck was noticeably chunkier than a Martin 000-15 (my fav neck)...I hate to risk not loving a guitar and then selling for a $650 loss.

I also have my eye on a 2009 D-40BJ for $1,800. The difference would pay for my '70 D-25 refret!

 

[E-Type]

Very odd. My 2007 F40 does have the Load and Lock D-TAR pickup, and I wasn't aware of Guild offering other pickup options in that year (which doesn't mean they didn't, just that I didn't know about it).

I've seen occasional reports of older "new" guitars in shops that didn't hang on the walls but simply got lost in the mix somewhere in hte back. Indeed, my F40 (which I bought as NOS in 2014 or so) was supposedly one of those, and arrived as if brand new. After 16 years, though, I'd be at least a bit suspicious of claims that a guitar was NOS, particularly if it had a pickup different from the one that I know Guild was offering as a factory install in 2007.

I see you have a Tacoma F40 and a NH F47r. May I ask how the necks compare?

 

[adorshki]

It's been sitting there for 16 years ("people don't come to out shop for Guilds") and the market price is closer to $1,700. yes, it is "new", but guitars get knocked around a bit in stores. He is supposed to send pics, but hasn't yet. The bigger issue may be that I was told the neck was noticeably chunkier than a Martin 000-15 (my fav neck)...I hate to risk not loving a guitar and then selling for a $650 loss.

IF it had a warranty that might justify about $300-500 in value, but I don't think Cordoba extended warranty to Tacoma, only NH. But it couldn't hurt to call. The other qualifiers were NOS as that guitar is represented, purchased from an authorized dealer, and of course original owner. Of record, at least.

It occurs to me that seller may have been authorized at one time and lost or relinquished the status, especially given the turmoil of ownership changes, and that's why it's been "sitting there for 16 years ("people don't come to our shop for Guilds") ".

As well, there's at least one owner here who believes one of their Tacomas would qualify for warranty and it would be an interesting check point. They did confirm the warranty on an NOS New Hartford somebody stumbled across within the last month, to my great surprise (that there was still an NOS New Hartford out there).

 

[E-Type]

IF it had a warranty that might justify about $300-500 in value, but I don't think Cordoba extended warranty to Tacoma, only NH. But it couldn't hurt to call. The other qualifiers were NOS as that guitar is represented, purchased from an authorized dealer, and of course original owner. Of record, at least.

It occurs to me that seller may have been authorized at one time and lost or relinquished the status, especially given the turmoil of ownership changes, and that's why it's been "sitting there for 16 years ("people don't come to our shop for Guilds") ".

As well, there's at least one owner here who believes one of their Tacomas would qualify for warranty and it would be an interesting check point. They did confirm the warranty on an NOS New Hartford somebody stumbled across within the last month, to my great surprise (that there was still an NOS New Hartford out there).

And now it's up to Yamaha!
The guy I talked to said they had always been a Guild dealer, but hadn't ordered any in at least a decade.

 

[adorshki]

And now it's up to Yamaha!
The guy I talked to said they had always been a Guild dealer, but hadn't ordered any in at least a decade.

If they're still authorized there may be a glimmer of a chance. Surprise us!!

 

[E-Type]

I just sent Guild a message. We'll see!

 

[fronobulax]

IF it had a warranty that might justify about $300-500 in value, but I don't think Cordoba extended warranty to Tacoma, only NH. But it couldn't hurt to call. The other qualifiers were NOS as that guitar is represented, purchased from an authorized dealer, and of course original owner. Of record, at least.

It occurs to me that seller may have been authorized at one time and lost or relinquished the status, especially given the turmoil of ownership changes, and that's why it's been "sitting there for 16 years ("people don't come to our shop for Guilds") ".

As well, there's at least one owner here who believes one of their Tacomas would qualify for warranty and it would be an interesting check point. They did confirm the warranty on an NOS New Hartford somebody stumbled across within the last month, to my great surprise (that there was still an NOS New Hartford out there).

LTG is not known for data driven studies but maybe a decade ago someone did look at enough comparable instruments in the new and in the used markets to decide the Guild factory warranty was worth $300-$500 on mid-ranged and better instruments.

The press releases at the time CMG purchased Guild from FMIC were explicit in saying that CMG also acquired the warranty obligations on Guilds made in New Hartford. My recollection is that there were no official statements concerning warranty for instruments made elsewhere, domestic or abroad.

In the absence of a legal review of the acquisition documents involving FMIC's activities and documents of prior sales of Guild we have no credible knowledge about the warranty status of Tacoma made instruments, nor do we know whether the legal obligation, if one exists, belonged to Guild and successor owners or to FMIC.

Warranty discussions quickly become speculative because posters often confuse a moral obligation to fix something with a legal obligation to do so. Furthermore there are cases where warranty claims have been honored in the absence of any legal obligation to do so. To add to the confusion, there is not always agreement on what constitutes a defect in materials and workmanship and whether a "lifetime" warrantee is for the lifetime of the instrument, the lifetime original purchaser or the lifetime of the company that made the instrument.

In this specific case, the selling dealer should be asked about the warrantee status. If they claim there is a factory warranty then that could be confirmed with Guild or FMIC depending upon who the dealer claims will be responsible for warranty claims.

 

[E-Type]

LTG is not known for data driven studies but maybe a decade ago someone did look at enough comparable instruments in the new and in the used markets to decide the Guild factory warranty was worth $300-$500 on mid-ranged and better instruments.

The press releases at the time CMG purchased Guild from FMIC were explicit in saying that CMG also acquired the warranty obligations on Guilds made in New Hartford. My recollection is that there were no official statements concerning warranty for instruments made elsewhere, domestic or abroad.

In the absence of a legal review of the acquisition documents involving FMIC's activities and documents of prior sales of Guild we have no credible knowledge about the warranty status of Tacoma made instruments, nor do we know whether the legal obligation, if one exists, belonged to Guild and successor owners or to FMIC.

Warranty discussions quickly become speculative because posters often confuse a moral obligation to fix something with a legal obligation to do so. Furthermore there are cases where warranty claims have been honored in the absence of any legal obligation to do so. To add to the confusion, there is not always agreement on what constitutes a defect in materials and workmanship and whether a "lifetime" warrantee is for the lifetime of the instrument, the lifetime original purchaser or the lifetime of the company that made the instrument.

In this specific case, the selling dealer should be asked about the warrantee status. If they claim there is a factory warranty then that could be confirmed with Guild or FMIC depending upon who the dealer claims will be responsible for warranty claims.

Currently, they only offer a 1 year warranty. So unless the pickup system doesn’t work (or batteries left in 16 years ago have corroded), I kinda doubt that year gets me much.

 

[valleyguy]

If this guitar is in the Los Angeles area, I may have played it years ago. Really nice, but I bought a D50. If this is at California Vintage Guitar and Amp, I have bought several guitars there and the guys who run are pretty straight nice guys. if this is the store you’re talking about, I no longer live near there, otherwise I’d check it out for you.

 

[E-Type]

If this guitar is in the Los Angeles area, I may have played it years ago. Really nice, but I eat bought a D50. If this is at California Vintage Guitar and Amp, I have bought several guitars there and the guys who run are pretty straight nice guys. if this is the store you’re talking about, I no longer live near there, otherwise I’d check it out for you.

Yep, that’s the place! Good to hear a review, even if it is just “really nice”! I’ve sort of narrowed it to this of a 2009 D-40BGJ.