Ren leaving Guild?

[Westerly Wood]

I know the pre-war Martins are often copied and sought after, I mean Santa Cruz has a PW line based on the Martin from 1930s and 40s.
I can only guess it is they were doing scalloped and forward shifted bracing back then? Seems to be the only real differences I can tell.

 

[adorshki]

The most likely way for the Ren Fergerson Guitar Company to make money would be sell instruments made by or supervised by Ren. But when he stops, the business stops or dramatically reinvents itself.

Yeah, lookit what happened to CF Martin.
They just didn't know when to stop.
Training and turnover be damned.

 

[Neal]

quote from frono:


And if an Orpheum were my Grail Guitar I'd be saving my money, scouring ads and buying every one that came on the market and reselling all but the one that speaks to me most.

IMO. YMMV.

frono.....kind of what I'm doing but with a little twist.....I've acquired five in the last year: 12 fret hog slope burst, jumbo hog nt, 14 fret hog slope burst, and two 14 fret rw slope nt.....the 12 fret was not a good fit for me, it's gone...the jumbo didn't "move me" like I thought it would (I'll always wonder if I didn't keep it long enough to break in that adi top), sold it.....now the three 14 frets, hog and rw, are left, and like you said, I'm looking for the one that speaks to me the most.....as I was selling off my Taylors and my Martin, all with electronics, I decided to put a pickup in the hog...the baggs anthem didn't seem to fit the vintage bracing and bridge design, so I went with the K&K Trinity solo, run it stereo through a DTAR Solstice and it's awesome.....here's the twist I mentioned...as I decide on a favorite, I may trade, rather than sell, if, at some point I get a chance to play a Collings, an H&D, a Bourgeois, or a Goodall.....if a guitar like that sounds like an Orf and has the neck and play-ability of a Taylor, that would be my "grail", and then I would be willing to let go of one of my last Orpheums.....in the mean time, my 14 fret slopes, hog and rw, are the ones for me and my rhythm style...and yes, they do get better and better as the adi tops get more and more hours on them. absolutely no doubt about it! this has been a great discussion about Guild, Ren and Orpheums!

My "grail" would be a 12-fret Orpheum in rosewood, which does not exist, for reasons that still escape me.

 

[fronobulax]

My "grail" would be a 12-fret Orpheum in rosewood, which does not exist, for reasons that still escape me.

Would a rosewood Orpheum have competed with a regular production model?

 

[txbumper57]

My "grail" would be a 12-fret Orpheum in rosewood, which does not exist, for reasons that still escape me.

Mine too Neal, They actually listed in the 2016 Guild catalog that they were going to offer the 12 fret slope with Rosewood back and sides. I was all excited and now with Ren retiring and things moving in different directions I don't know of they ever will make them. I have looked at a few Gibson Custom shop Smeck models that have the Adi top and the Rosewood back and sides but they just aren't the same as the Orpheums, Even though they were designed and built by the same guy.

TX

 

[rwmct]

IMO, it's the traditional range-topper Guilds that Oxnard has to get good at.

This, IMO.

 

[Lacidar]

Welcome aboard Lacidar!
Catching up here, my apologies for being consumed in a couple of our famous "veers" and not noticing a new member sooner.
It looks like you're already comfortable fitting in with that custom, so enjoy your visits and please do let us know how the search goes!

Thank you, adorshki! My search for reliable, actionable information regarding the progress of new acoustic guitar production from Guild's new Oxnard, CA production facility continues, "full steam ahead." I will say, it's interesting and disappointing the very wide degree of variation I see in the responsiveness and in the quality of information I'm receiving from "authorized Guild dealers" in the Northwestern U.S. of late. I'm in close contact with a half-dozen such dealers, and their feedback has ranged from "We have no idea what Guild is up to these days...but we've got a great Breedlove or Laravee 12-string we can sell you right now, for a whole lot less than a Guild F-512," to "We've placed a dealer order for all of Guild's new guitars and as such, we're actively taking orders for new production Guild guitars, including the superlative F-512," to "The F-512 is not officially being launched until early January 2017. Orders placed now will be shipped late January or Early February. We can take pre-orders for them at any time if you are interested."

Also, particularly deafening has been the complete silence from the source itself: Guild USA has acknowledged receipt of my direct inquiries to them, but they've not responded to them (it's been about three weeks). I've honestly toyed with the idea of going into my Magnum, P.I. Persona, jumping into my red Ferrari, and actually dropping by Guild's Oxnard, CA production facility unannounced, sniffing around, and seeing what I can learn (I'm painfully aware that I might well leave empty handed and disappointed, having not made it past the reception desk, and without any more information than I entered with. Still...it's very tempting). Needless to say, I'll keep the LTG community posted on my progress and my insights, through this forum...

Lacidar

 

[Lacidar]

Hi adorshki,

Of course, this is a GUILD forum, but for the sake of broadening and deepening the knowledge of LTG forum members, I'd be very keen to learn more about what happened to CF Martin (re your comment). I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't know. Please expand on your point with as much thoughtful and factual detail as possible. Your insights, observations, and opinions greatly interest many of us!

 

[Rayk]

Mag PI lol you can do it ! Lol
The big CG most likely is keeping hush till they actually see good production rates . Makes sense not get over hyped to find out a first run needs a major redo . I guess like m20 d40 ( those the right models ?) we will see a few shop proto types maybe an auto clip . Then the run dates . ..... ?

 

[Bing k]

Per a call to Cordoba Wednesday: The production of F-512s is planed for late December. We have had a 512 and D55 on order since the 2015 Namm. We are 11th in line to receive a 512 once they start shipping. There are a few NOS around but getting them freed up for sale is another thing. Example/There is one here that was purchased for a private collection.

 

[fronobulax]

Per a call to Cordoba Wednesday: The production of F-512s is planed for late December. We have had a 512 and D55 on order since the 2015 Namm. We are 11th in line to receive a 512 once they start shipping. There are a few NOS around but getting them freed up for sale is another thing. Example/There is one here that was purchased for a private collection.

Since there are some new/recent members participating in the discussion, by way of introduction, Bing k is a long time Guild dealer in Montana. He has a reputation for providing reliable information, especially when it comes to what Guild tells their dealers. He honors the non-commercial policy of LTG by not blowing his own horn, but I will say that everyone who has bought an instrument from him has been quite pleased with price and service.

 

[Westerly Wood]

Since there are some new/recent members participating in the discussion, by way of introduction, Bing k is a long time Guild dealer in Montana. He has a reputation for providing reliable information, especially when it comes to what Guild tells their dealers. He honors the non-commercial policy of LTG by not blowing his own horn, but I will say that everyone who has bought an instrument from him has been quite pleased with price and service.

what i dont understand is why it is so hard to free the NOS Oxnard have lying around for sale? I mean, can someone not walk out to the warehouse and pick one out, send it to Bing?

 

[Bing k]

what i dont understand is why it is so hard to free the NOS Oxnard have lying around for sale? I mean, can someone not walk out to the warehouse and pick one out, send it to Bing?

I don't know that Cordoba has much (any) NOS. I would think any NOS would be what's left in dealer inventory, hanging or in storage.

 

[merlin6666]

what i dont understand is why it is so hard to free the NOS Oxnard have lying around for sale? I mean, can someone not walk out to the warehouse and pick one out, send it to Bing?

Apparently about 2 months ago they liberated about two dozen Orpheums to CME, mainly the slothead orchestras that were thought to be particularly rare and desirable ...

 

[chazmo]

That's gotta' be right, Bing.

Hope all's well out your way. Nice to see you chime in here! Best wishes.

 

[txbumper57]

Apparently about 2 months ago they liberated about two dozen Orpheums to CME, mainly the slothead orchestras that were thought to be particularly rare and desirable ...

Actually it was 13 Orpheums of which 11 were 12 fret Hog Slothead OM's and 2 of those were slothead 12 fret Rosewood 12 strings. They also sent them some D50 Bluegrass models(of which more than one is marked "B" stock on the label), a few D40 Bluegrass models, and 2 or three F47M's. As far as the Orpheums that was the last of the last that had not been shipped to dealers when New Hartford Closed.

TX

 

[Westerly Wood]

Apparently about 2 months ago they liberated about two dozen Orpheums to CME, mainly the slothead orchestras that were thought to be particularly rare and desirable ...

"liberated"....

 

[adorshki]

"The F-512 is not officially being launched until early January 2017. Orders placed now will be shipped late January or Early February. We can take pre-orders for them at any time if you are interested."

Personal opinion as someone who's worked in the retail sales and wholesale distribution industries: I think this is as close to the truth as you're gonna get, judging from past performance history.
I applaud they don't try to switch you to another brand (sign of someone who only wants to sell something now and cares not a whit about your reasons for shopping a specific brand), and they appear to value both you and the brand enough to address your specific interest.
I suspect they are honestly transmitting Guild's current forecast to dealers.
My only caution would be that they didn't explain that these forecasts can be delayed for a number of unforseeable and legitimate reasons, but at least they kept it short and to the point. It is possible to scare somebody off with too much information.
If they're taking pre-orders without requiring a deposit, I'd absolutely go for it, barring an issue you'd prefer to avoid like having to have it shipped from a distance.
AS for the deafening silence from Guild itself, it could well be that they simply don't want to make a promise they can't keep yet themselves, as well as maybe trying to avoid the danger of fueling rumors that come back to bite them.
Giving forecasts to dealers is a little different, dealers understand that nothing's cast in stone, typical end customers tend to forget that little fact.
Having made those caveats clear, I can say (after factory was finally ready for production) that their pace of new product introduction and actual shipment has been pretty surprising to me compared to past paces of development:
M20, D20, D40 shipping and M40 prototype shown (I expect to see shipping within a month, then), all within about a 6 month window.
So that early '17 forecast for F512 may well be very close to what happens.
:friendly_wink:
EDIT: I See once again I made the mistake of posting before reading all unread posts and I see Bing pretty much confirmed what I suspected about dealer communication from Guild.

 

[adorshki]

oops

 

[adorshki]

I don't know that Cordoba has much (any) NOS. I would think any NOS would be what's left in dealer inventory, hanging or in storage.

Yeah I suspected those "(2014)" models were on the website purely to let folks know what was what if they saw them advertised, it helps the dealers too.