Tell Me what you really think of the New GAD'S !

[HoboKen]

Needed to go back to Smithfield Fair (are you going to Smithfield Fair, West R Lee, HobKen, and Gasman?)

Well written Dudley. My son has a Sigma DR-41 (top pf the Sigma Line) and he loves it....but he knows that its not a martin D-41, not really close.
He now also has a GAD 50, and he knows its not the same as my Westerly Guilds, not really close.

As long as they keep the GAD designation, I guess its OK.......having a chesterfield logo......maybe.....almost like just an up-grade of the DeArmond headstock. But, it is at the expense of the great Westerly and Hoboken chesterfield headstock Guilds of the past, much the way the present regular Chinese Epiphones mock but never match the old Kalamazoo and older Epiphones.

Gibson and Martin are now putting their only headstocks and logos on guitars that are far less a "Martin" or a "Gibson" than anything in their past also. What a shame for all three!.....

Ironically, Epiphone, which, more recently, has "almost" been the "Guild DeArmond" for Gibson, has now eclipsed even the home-grown USA Custom Shop Gibsons with its Japanese Elitist Series in both luthier quality control and quality of materials.

Fender - Guild needs to keep the "G" logo Guilds strictly a USA Tacoma thing or it will be then end of any acknowledged high quality instrument the Guild name has mean't through thick and thin of corporate changes and blunders over the years.

HoboKen

 

[julz420]

Guilds+Made in China= wuddayafuc*inkiddinmeman?

 

[Siwash]

Implicit here, underlying this discussion thread, is the notion that Chinese Guilds devalue American Guilds.

I'm not sure this is true. The build quality of the GADs has been extremely high, especially for a guitar at this price point.

The GADs are helping build a reputation for Guild at this point! While the cognoscenti may sniff, the general public is beginning to appreciate what the company can do!

There are True Believers that all is going to helll and it's never as good as it was before, etc., but the Tacoma stuff, too, is getting good reviews. At any rate, there's always going to be a niche if you want to sell your old Westerly and get a good price for it---people buying such stuff value the associations and the perceived superior quality.

 

[julz420]

I (myself) am more than aware that the instruments dubbed "GAD" are not by anymeans an act of "selling out" (if you will) on guilds part, but rather a broadening of their market to the "entry level guitarists".
and it actually gives me some weird sort of satisfaction when i see the "GAD" headstock, much like the feeling of owning a Gibson and seeing the Eipiphone headstock, its not even a matter of having money or not, but rather a matter of "This is what I play and I refuse to settle."
it separates us "D-mens" and "Dv-ants" :twisted:
and who knows maybe ill stumble upon a GAD that blows me away and shuts my mouth, till then, ill take a D-100, no pickles, extra ketchup.

to go please..... :wink:

 

[dreadnut]

Hey Julz, I see you have a Yairi. As much as I've badmouthed the Pacific Rim guitars over the years, the Alvarez has always seemed to me to be a fine instrument. Some of my friends have them and whenever I pick one up in a music store it always feels, plays, and sounds nice, particularly the higher end ones.

In fact, one of my friends has a late 60's or early 70's Alvarez Silver Princess 5 string banjo that absolutely screams!

Anyway, I've always liked Alvarez, and they've always done their own thing with their own name.

Re: GADS, once again, nice entry level guitar, excellent workmanship, but I have yet to hear one that even comes close to the sound of a hand made American Guild 8)

 

[Siwash]

well, Drednut, you point out something important. I have not stuck a GAD against a homegrown.

But it beat one of two Martins I compared it against!

I don't know what to make of this, having been near-brainwashed into the belief that Martins are the only serious guitars!

 

[Graham]

This one will go on and on. Siwash as I have stated before when I was in my search for a guitar I played a GAD against a bunch of other guitars, Martins, Taylor, Larrivee, Epiphone, Takamine, Seagull, S&P. The one I kept coming back to of all of them was the GAD.

'Nuff said.

 

[HoboKen]

I'm sorry, but only to a point, if I rubbed someone's fur the wrong way. I call 'em as I see 'em!

I've also compared the Chinese GADs to the Chinese Saga Blueridge series and I'm sorry to say that the Blueridge series was a better bang for the buck. As prices creep up on them as of late - probably because many others found that out to be true and demand now exceeds supply - that may not be the case anymore.

I like the GADs for what they are. But, a GAD JF-30 type is no match for my Westerly JF-30. I truly wish it was. But, it is not. Close, but no cigar where it counts. I base this observation on a head to head comparison I did months ago.

I'm sure Fender-Guild doesn't give a rip what I think. Will the GADs ever be equal to their older Guilds' models' name sake? Like I said, I hope so someday.

Personally, I guess I'm one for if its not 100% a today's version of the real McCoy, don't put "Guild" on the top of the headstock. It was far more honest when, for the electrics, they put "DeArmond" on the top of the headstock and "Guild" on the truss rod cover plate. But, then the DeArmonds made in Korea were better than some of the Fenders.....and with the change of ownership, they couldn't have that now could they!

HoboKen

Hoboken F-212(M)
Westerly DV-72 (R)
" DV-52 (R)
" JF-30 (MP)
" JF-30-12 (MP)
" JF-55-12 (R)
" S-100 (M)
" Classical Mark IV (R)
PA '67 Martin D-35 (Brazilian R)
" " 0001R
Korean DeArmond Starfire III Special (MP)
Japanese Aria Classical Grand Concert (R)
Chinese Blueridge BR-160 (R)
Kalamazoo '67 Epiphone FT-79N Texan (M)
Japanese Epiphone Elitist Byrdland (MP)
" " Elitist Les Paul Custom (M)
Hagerstown Paul Beard R-Model Square-neck Resophonic (M)
Chinese Gold-Tone Paul Beard Signature Model Round-neck Cutaway Resophonic (M)
CA Deering Boston Six-String Banjo
CA Blue Lion Lap Dulcimer (C)
Chinese Mogan Monroe MMS-5 Mandolin (MP)

 

[West R Lee]

Ya know Ken, if you ever tire of playing music, you could always open a music store. Pretty good inventory you have there now!

BTW, I couldn't agree more. :wink:

West

 

[Graham]

I like the GADs for what they are. But, a GAD JF-30 type is no match for my Westerly JF-30. I truly wish it was. But, it is not. Close, but no cigar where it counts. I base this observation on a head to head comparison I did months ago.
HoboKen

Hoboken F-212(M)
Westerly DV-72 (R)
" DV-52 (R)
" JF-30 (MP)
" JF-30-12 (MP)
" JF-55-12 (R)
" S-100 (M)
" Classical Mark IV (R)
PA '67 Martin D-35 (Brazilian R)
" " 0001R
Korean DeArmond Starfire III Special (MP)
Japanese Aria Classical Grand Concert (R)
Chinese Blueridge BR-160 (R)
Kalamazoo '67 Epiphone FT-79N Texan (M)
Japanese Epiphone Elitist Byrdland (MP)
" " Elitist Les Paul Custom (M)
Hagerstown Paul Beard R-Model Square-neck Resophonic (M)
Chinese Gold-Tone Paul Beard Signature Model Round-neck Cutaway Resophonic (M)
CA Deering Boston Six-String Banjo
CA Blue Lion Lap Dulcimer (C)
Chinese Mogan Monroe MMS-5 Mandolin (MP)

Ken, I don't think, I can usually stop there, but I don't think the intent is to have the GAD replace the Westerly Guilds, or even the Tacoma or Corona Guilds. I view the GADs as the entry into the Guild line, nothing more, nothing less. Nor would I compare a GAD to one of mine. What I did do when I was looking for a guitar was comapre the GAD to the other guitars that I mentioned. The GAD won out, for me, which led me to explore the Guild line further. For me I am thankful that Guild was on the headstock.

It is in that frame of reference where I believe Fender has done something correct with this line. It is bringing people to the line and to the forum to talk about it.

I could have edited out your stash of guitars, but it is far too impreesive to do.

 

[HoboKen]

Graham,

If they built a Tacoma Guild JF-30 and a GAD by Guild JF-30, your point is logical.

However, they do not, to my knowledge, build a Tacoma "Guild JF-30."
(I wish they did!) Let 'em be honest and put "GAD" at the top of the headstock! Or, are they afraid folks would go "Eeek-GADS!" If you're going to put "Guild" at the "top" of the headstock, it really should be a "Guild," not a less than 100% copy.

I like my DeArmond Starfire III Special by Guild. Its a great guitar. But, it doesn't try to be a "Guild" Starfire III at the top of the headstock. That's my point.

HoboKen

(I forgot to add a Mapex Mars Pro Series Drum Kit. and my one son's
Sigma DR-41 and GAD 50)

 

[West R Lee]

Graham,

Sorry old buddy, I'm going to have to agree wholeheartedly with Ken here. Maybe they could have called them Guildahama or something. How about Guildazuki?

West

 

[Graham]

No worries guys, this is something that newcomers, like myself to this name, will continue to disagree with because I do not have or share the passion as deeply with the brand name as others. I just continue to say that this is what "brung me." I do not appologize for that ignorance, nor do I pit the model names and numbers against each other.

 

[West R Lee]

Oh you said it Graham. Passion, that's the word. Folks like myself, Ken, Dred, Smith. It's in your blood and it's like we carry this sense of pride, not because we think, but because we know that Westerly built Guilds are the greatest guitar for the money ever built. That's what brought us here in the first place.

Heck, I've been holding this inside of me since the late 70's, and it was just in 2005 that I found a place where others share that passion. When we make a statement about Corona Guilds or GADs, it's not to offend anyone, it's because sometimes it really is an emotional issue with us and what we say is how we really feel deep down inside.

The thing is that most of the Westerly nuts here have been around Guild for decades. We've played the others, and based on that we give our honest opinion. I think all of us hold high hopes for Tacoma built Guilds, but the Tacomas I think, are Fenders last ditch effort at attempting to recapture the old Guild glory that we love so much.

West

 

[california]

Gibson and Martin are now putting their only headstocks and logos on guitars that are far less a "Martin" or a "Gibson" than anything in their past also. What a shame for all three!.....
HoboKen

You don't know the half of that statement. I was in good ol' GC yesterday killing time before my guitar lesson, which is about 4 blocks away. A guy in the acoustic room was playing a guitar that said "Martin" on the headstock but frankly, that was where the resemblence ended. It had a "synthetic" fretboard, the tone was harsh and the finish, in a word, sucked. But this guy, who couldn't even identify the kind of wood it was made of, was thrilled that he could buy a Martin for under a grand, and the salesman was seeing $$$ signs in his eyes. When the guy asked if he could lower the price a bit, the salesman said of course not, "Its a Martin". I started feeling sorry for the guy, and after the salesman left before coming back for the kill I suggested he play the guitar I was playing -- a beautiful, used, all black mahogany dread with spruce top and elegant herringbone trim. The guitar played rings around the Martin -- tone was warmer, action easier. When the guy said he could never afford a guitar this nice, I showed him the price tag that I had pulled off. It was a used Washburn. Price: $100.00. Look on the guys face: Priceless. I said if you don't buy this I will: he did. The sales guy didn't know what hit him; story over -- happy ending.

 

[HoboKen]

GADs are good, but most Westerly's were and are great! The new Tacoma's are really nice just this side of great also from what I've seen.

Notice I said "Most" Westerly's. I did get stung on an e-bay buy of a Westerly D-55 last year. The e-bay ad was a great eye candy feast if I ever saw one. And had it been all that it looked and was said to be on-screen, I would have been jumping for joy at having purchased it.

It arrived with issues not visable in the pictures or as advertised as "Excellent + Condition." The body ultra-thin cracks along the neck may or may not have happened in transit. It would take at least half as much money to fix it as I had already spent. That was bad enough and I had to claim the insurance which was $200 under what I paid for the guitar. Never deal with those that will not take a credit card or pay-pal and always get it in writing as to how much the guitar is insured for before you buy. I knew that......I just forgot and it cost me!

The white plastic piece the strap pin goes into at the sides-bottom end of the body of the guitar was at least 1/8" lower than the sides surface. That had to be from the factory. All Westerlys are not excellent + condition out there, even from the factory. This one was even a newer year Fender-Guild Westerly instead of the pre-Fender year Westerly as advertised. Maybe that was the day the luthiers found out that Guild was moving to Corona?

Sad, but wiser I hope.......sometime in the next year I'll try for a new Tacoma D-55 with factory "war-n-tee" most likely.

HoboKen

 

[dreadnut]

Great story, Cal! :lol:

I've done a little un-solicited "coaching" in the acoustic room at GC myself. 8)

 

[Siwash]

It's nutty and a bit unfair to compare current guitars to past guitars. Manufacturing changes, etc.

I think the real question for the Westerly crowd is how Tacoma will hold up; that's the real comparison point, not the entry-level GADs. And I agree with Graham; the GADs are for the great vast number of people who are trying out the idea of playing guitar. (Publishers sell a lot more of "guitar for beginner" type books than "guitar for advanced players" titles).

In all this, I'm surprised by the fellow above who liked the Blueridge better than the Guild. But for me, they WERE close, but I liked the deeper sound from the Guild GAD.

 

[Siwash]

Actually, Fender marketing people likely have a better appreciation of the state of the acoustic guitar market than most of us here do. They have access to market research and so forth.

It might prove in the end to be an ironic thing: the Chinese GADs helping prop up the American line!

 

[california]

Siwash -- a couple of very good points.

Fender is in the business of selling guitars, and they would not have made the investment in GADs if they didn't think that the line would sell. For people looking for guitars at that price point, the GADs represent an excellent value.

Ditto on the Tacoma's. American made Guilds should be compared to other American made Guilds, and all other American made guitars for that matter. It is to Fender's credit that they moved production to Tacoma if they felt that it was (a) profitable and (b) the line would be preserved and hopefully enhanced. If some of the Tacomas that I've played are any indication, they're doing the right thing by preserving and enhancing Guild quality.

Compared to other Fender product lines, Guild is a drop in the bucket. Guild wasn't competition for any Fender line, so they didn't need to buy it to kill it (Gibson or Martin could have done that). Fender obviously realizes that having a quality acoustic line makes sense in their marketing mix. And frankly, I'd rather see them bringing in good quality GADs then making bottom end, poorly crafted American guitars just so they can move stuff through Guitar Center like Martin has done.