Paul Simon's Guild

Crossroads Music in Hanover, MA is an authorized Guild dealer, the ebay item location however shows Hanson, MA. So you need to check if the guitar is sold by Crossroads Music in Hanover, means comes from an authorized Guild dealer and therefore comes with full Guild warranty. You need to have your sales receipt by an authorized Guild dealer.
Ralf

theactor19 said:

But I'm thinking if I plan on having the F-30R for the rest of my life, does it make sense to go brand new?

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My personal opinion: Flat out unqualified yes.
I couldn't afford to do that until I was 40.
At that time the warranty was a mandatory condition of my purchase decision even though I've never had to use it on any of my 3 Guilds. (See my sig)
After that it was playability and quality for the price. To be fair, I did get great discounts on all of mine too.
Another consideration was my fear that in fact there might not be any more American-built guitars in a few years, so there was a bit of internal debate about "Get it while you can" vs "Wait til you can comfortably afford it".
Ya never know. :wink:
That D25 has about 1300 hours of playing time on it now and I consider it to be better than new, soundwise, and at least as good as new after the second full re-fret.
At this stage of my life I'd never be able to recreate it even if I found a brand New Old Stock '96-'97 D25 to start with.
It is now irreplacable.
A small observation about "tone" though, it looks like Paul's F30 is an arched back, and the new ones are all flatbacks. There will be a definite difference in "tonal quality" between the two back styles. I can't tell from my monitor if in fact Paul's is arch-backed, but I don't see a backseam in the soundhole in the pic Dcannon posted.
Worth checking in case it was overlooked when comparing the other specs.
Even if the backs do turn out to be different, it seems very possible that New Hartford will start offering special order construction for guitars that can be made with parts from their existing tooling. That means you may be able to special order one to exactly your specs at a "reasonable" (as compared to a "boutique") price.
My dream guitar currently would in fact be an F30R with archback, 1-11/16 nut, and 24-3/4 scale.
I'm liking the orchestra bodies these days and I need to get some rosewood and a shortscale in the family.
I'm hopin' I'll be able to get it in the next couple of years by special order.
I can be flexible on the fretboard but I think the real problem with ebony currently is availability, as Steamfurnace mentioned.
Even Indian rosewood's getting problematic, and I think that further increased the demand for ebony.
Welcome aboard and best wishes for your search!

There's something else I forgot to mention about a brand spanking new guitar, I call it the "Virgin Bride" factor, and I still get it every time I open the case of my F65ce, that one being an absolute top-of-the line instrument with every last bit of bling.
But the D25 is still the number one wife.. :lol: :wink:

Al,
In other photos of Simon's F-30R, you can see the back bracing via the sound hole which would preclude an arched back. Take a look at these (3rd, 4th & 5th down):
http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~ino_gui/Pau ... ecial2.htm

BTW, I'm with you regarding new guitars and have no problem supporting the OP in going new. Used guitars can be a great find if the one you're searching for happens to come along and has the tone/playability you like and is in good condition, but in this case it could be quite a long wait, and odds aren't good.

DC

DCannon said:

Al,
In other photos of Simon's F-30R, you can see the back bracing via the sound hole which would preclude an arched back. Take a look at these (3rd, 4th & 5th down):
http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~ino_gui/Pau ... ecial2.htm

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Gotta admit I was lazy and didn't dig too deep for more pics, and I know archback F30's are rare let alone arched rosewood.
And was pretty sure you of all people would mention it if it was arched, but just wanted to be sure the question got asked. :wink:

DCannon said:

BTW, I'm with you regarding new guitars and have no problem supporting the OP in going new. Used guitars can be a great find if the one you're searching for happens to come along and has the tone/playability you like and is in good condition, but in this case it could be quite a long wait, and odds aren't good.
DC

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Was hopin' that part about the "Virgin Bride" moment would really sink the hook.
:lol:

adorshki said:

Gotta admit I was lazy and didn't dig too deep for more pics, and I know archback F30's are rare let alone arched rosewood.
And was pretty sure you of all people would mention it if it was arched, but just wanted to be sure the question got asked. :wink:

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Hey, it's a good question. Now, how cool...and rare... would an arched back F-30R be! Didn't Guild make an arched back F-30 (hog) or one of the F series? Maybe I'm thinking of something else. Gettin' older ya know. :roll:

adorshki said:

Was hopin' that part about the "Virgin Bride" moment would really sink the hook.
:lol:

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:lol: That was great.

theactor19 said:

I'm wondering if I should go the used route? I'm always weary of doing this with acoustic guitars (don't mind as much with electrics). But I'm thinking if I plan on having the F-30R for the rest of my life, does it make sense to go brand new?

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My personal opinion, is that I would not hesitate to go used whatsoever. We (my dad and brother and I) have had probably over 70 guitars, at least 16 right now, and of those, 9 are keepers that we likely will never sell. Of those 9, 3 were bought new, and even the most discriminating guitar buyer would find [most of] the used ones satisfactory. Go try them out, a good chance you'll be surprised. By all means, go over it with a fine-toothed comb, but don't discount them because they're used. There are a ton of other guitar owners out there who are as careful with their instruments as you are.

I suppose that in all fairness, of those 6 used ones, 3 were vintage or NLA (like the Gruhn Design Guild!). Also, I'm counting the ones that were bought new and sold/traded to one of us by one of us to still be bought new.

DCannon said:

adorshki said:

Gotta admit I was lazy and didn't dig too deep for more pics, and I know archback F30's are rare let alone arched rosewood.
And was pretty sure you of all people would mention it if it was arched, but just wanted to be sure the question got asked. :wink:

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Hey, it's a good question. Now, how cool...and rare... would an arched back F-30R be! Didn't Guild make an arched back F-30 (hog) or one of the F series? Maybe I'm thinking of something else. Gettin' older ya know. :roll:[/quote]
Now that you mention it I might be confusing 'em with F20's, for example Lady Texan acquired a gorgeous F20 with arched maple back a few months ago.
The only true arched rosewood back I recall was a '67 (?) F50R owned by Chazmo and even it actually had a center seam on the outside. Not sure about inside. In case you feel like searching for the threads to have look-see. :wink:
But I'm pretty sure I've seen a couple of 'hog archback F30's here over the years. Only made for a couple-3 years IIRC.

adorshki said:

Now that you mention it I might be confusing 'em with F20's, for example Lady Texan acquired a gorgeous F20 with arched maple back a few months ago. The only true arched rosewood back I recall was a '67 (?) F50R owned by Chazmo and even it actually had a center seam on the outside. Not sure about inside. In case you feel like searching for the threads to have look-see. :wink:
But I'm pretty sure I've seen a couple of 'hog archback F30's here over the years. Only made for a couple-3 years IIRC.

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Yes, it's Lady Texan's F-20 archback I was thinking about. But still, like you, seems I've seen an archback hog F-30 mentioned here. Now I'm curious and a search is in order. I've never seen an archback F-30 and would love to hear one. Would also like to hear an archback F-20.

adorshki said:

But I'm pretty sure I've seen a couple of 'hog archback F30's here over the years.

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DCannon said:

But still, like you, seems I've seen an archback hog F-30 mentioned here. Now I'm curious and a search is in order.

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Maybe that helps:
Hans wrote here: "The F-30 did get an arched laminated back during the early '80s. The later reissues from the '90s were more or less reissues of the earlier design."
But we don't talk F-30R here, just F-30.
Ralf

SFIV1967 said:

Hans wrote here: "The F-30 did get an arched laminated back during the early '80s. The later reissues from the '90s were more or less reissues of the earlier design."
But we don't talk F-30R here, just F-30.
Ralf

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Thanks buddy!

So I was reading that Paul Simon's F30 Special had Brazilian Rosewood (correct me if I'm wrong), whereas the next ones have indian rosewood. How much of a difference would this have on the tone? I have heard that brazilian rosewood is the creme de la creme, but is also very rare now.

adorshki said:

SFIV1967 said:

Hans wrote here: "The F-30 did get an arched laminated back during the early '80s. The later reissues from the '90s were more or less reissues of the earlier design."
But we don't talk F-30R here, just F-30.
Ralf

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Thanks buddy!

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Yes, thanks Ralf!

Hans, I saw in your book online that Simon's F-30 specials did in fact have Brazilian rosewood sides and back. I really need to order your book to become more educated about Guild!!

DC

theactor19 said:

So I was reading that Paul Simon's F30 Special had Brazilian Rosewood (correct me if I'm wrong), whereas the next ones have indian rosewood. How much of a difference would this have on the tone? I have heard that brazilian rosewood is the creme de la creme, but is also very rare now.

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I think you would have to have a very educated ear to really be able to tell the difference, assuming you were hearing samples from similar cuts of as far as density, uniformity and tightness of grain.
The subject of tonewoods comes up here periodically and I think there's more concensus that quality of build will trump tonewood especially for woods in the same family, and that the player is actually the single most important factor of all.
As for "rarity", the issue is that Brazil started prohibiting the export of their rosewood back in the '60's, and it's now also on an international (CITES) treaty list of species (including endangered animals, not just plants) whose international trade is either heavily regulated or downright prohibited.
So yes, there is a very limited supply in this country of stockpiles in place from prior to the introduction of the resrrictions, but I'm not sure if it's actually "rare" in Brazil itself.
From recent readings I'm under the impression that ebony from Madagscar is more threatened than Brazilian rosewood, and EI rosewood is under export restrictions in India, which seems to be having significant impact on domestic instrument makers and one of the major reasons for recent increases in offerings of "new" tonewoods and fretboard woods.
Bottom line, I suspect Paul Simon could make even a relatively poor example of an everyday F30 sound better than I ever could. :wink:

theactor19 said:

So I was reading that Paul Simon's F30 Special had Brazilian Rosewood (correct me if I'm wrong), whereas the next ones have indian rosewood. How much of a difference would this have on the tone? I have heard that brazilian rosewood is the creme de la creme, but is also very rare now.

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Noticed this thread and thought of you:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=36405
:wink:

Just an observation.... I've heard most of Paul Simon's recordings after S&G, and I've never heard any of his guitars sound as good and readily identifiable as his Guilds. Such a wonderful, unique sound. I wonder whatever happened to those guitars, especially the F-30R Special #2 that was such an integral part of the S&G sound. I was listening to The Boxer, Mrs. Robinson, etc today and man!...what a great sounding guitar.

DC

adorshki said:

...The only true arched rosewood back I recall was a '67 (?) F50R owned by Chazmo and even it actually had a center seam on the outside. Not sure about inside.

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Actually, Hans has a picture of "Cap"'s 12-string twin in the OT, which I believe is designated an "F-412 Spec." As it turns out, Cap now resides with the same fellow who owns the F-412 Spec. I've tried to entice him to join us on LTG, but I don't think he's much of an online guy.

"Cap" is a 1967 "F-50 Rosewood" with laminated Brazilian rosewood back and sides. Both sides (inside and outside, that is) of the back and sides were made with cuts from the same log so you can't tell it's a lamination. The endpin hole made it clear, however. And, yes, the back is bookmatched, but it is arched and braceless.

Cap's original owner came on board here for a while, but the guitar needed work and he is/was suffering from the big Arthur. Anyway, it was my honor to be that guitar's caretaker for a few years. I even got to show it off to everybody at LMG I; there's even video of me talking about it and playing it (poorly).

Did Guild make any F-30Rs like this? It's certainly possible. If anyone gets to talk with Paul Simon, I'd love to know more about his early guitars.

DCannon said:

I wonder whatever happened to those guitars

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Hello DC,

About 10 years ago Paul still owned both these guitars. I don't think he would have a reason to get rid of them.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Thanks, Hans. I'm hoping some day he'll do an in-depth interview solely about his guitars.

Denny

DCannon said:

I was listening to The Boxer, Mrs. Robinson, etc today and man!...what a great sounding guitar.

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Especially "Mrs Robinson".
Do you know if it's on "Me And Julio..." too?
Also just recalled seeing a recent documentary about a concert tour of theirs from that period, whch has a few moments of great sound scattered here and there throughout.
Sorry, name's escaping me at the moment.