F-612 Questions

How many F-612 guitars were produced?
What years were they produced?
Did the F-612 have a flat back?

Thank you for replying to this.

For some of the info see Hans' book page 131. It was introduced in the 1972 pricelist and discontinued in November 1973.

I don't remember if the exact number of F-612 produced was disclosed by Hans, maybe the exact number is not even available as it was always a special order guitar (See Hans comments page 164).
Back in year 2003 Hans said: "There are probably not more than 10 in my database" and in the last 11 years he might have discovered a few more.

There are some good threads here about the F-612, here is one: http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?177776-F612

Ralf

I owned an F612 for about 15 months. They were certainly a nicely contrived instrument, however by now the few remaining F612's are most likely in tightly held collections. Perhaps not too long ago an F612 could have been purchased for a fairly reasonable sum, but not so today.

Although owning an F612 is a worthy goal, be assured that there are a far more guitarists who would like to own one today than there are guitars to fill the need. When they WERE available by special order from Guild, not many were ordered. During that time many more universally applicable guitars (Stratocaster, SG, dreadnaught, etc.) were available and were sold more widely.

If and when the next F612 comes up for sale, it will no doubt be an event with lots of excitement and "chatter" on all the guitar blog sites around.

Yes, we want what we can't have, don't we!

Sounds like a nice GSR for the new company to show what they are made of, so to speak...I mean, they have Ren!

You think they could sell 20 or 22, whatever the magic number is?

Ideal, how did the 612 compare to your 512? Was the tone difference outstanding? Or are the differences just ornate?

Westerly Wood said:

Ideal, how did the 612 compare to your 512? Was the tone difference outstanding? Or are the differences just ornate?

Click to expand...

The F612 was really what I think all 12 string guitars should sound like. We A/B'd it lots of times with my F512, and the F512 actually did sound like it had a little too much treble to it, if you can imagine that. There could be a problem though, in that many players might have a tough time playing an F612 due to the larger size, especially if it involves shoulder rotator cusp problems, etc.

So the 612 is to 12 strings as Martin' D-45 is to 6?

(I'd still prefer a Guild over a D-45)

And YES, if the new Guild were to produce an authentic F612, preferably with the checkered binding, I would buy at least one with a DTAR and the gold strap knob on the neck. I also feel that more than just 20 would sell. (On special order I don't see how Guild could loose). If a new F612 were produced with the modern Guild ebony headstock face plate, and the graphite reinforced neck; and with the guitar built in the quality of at least an F512 I think they would sell. Furthermore I don't believe that any other guitar manufacturer would try to compete with it, such as Martin and Taylor have done to clone the Guild F50 and F512 guitars.

I saw nothing wrong with the F612, it had all upside and virtually no downside; I would not care to attempt to maintain an original vintage F612, but definitely would buy a new one. These would sell if it were mentioned that John Denver & Peter Cetera (Chicago) recorded with F612's and also played them in concert. (Peter Cetera don't be afraid to chime in under a ficticious name to tell us the goods).

The original F612's had the jumbo size gold Grover tuners and they barely cleared each other because they were placed so close. The Guild G shield logo on my F612 was actually inlaid a few degrees crooked on the headstock- and just a little bit larger "G" than the F512. The headstock width and length were just a little bit shorter (perhaps to remove some weight from the longer neck). The checkerboard binding on the guitar top, around the rosette, and on the headstock was trimmed and installed with very good quality and precision. The seam on the back of the guitar was sealed a little more ornately than the F512. The bridge was about 1/2" longer and a little bit wider than an F512. Also those Florentine and snowflake fret markers and bridge inlays were precision quality and nice looking.

Supposedly Guild retained all the specifications on file for the original guitars, but if not a real F612 would have to be used to get the dimensions to build a modern F612.

You know that in the 1990's a new Indian Motorcycle company bought the logo and the legal rights to again build Indian motorcyles that resembled the original bikes where production stopped in 1953. There were definitely enough buyers of the icon to make it a success at a cost of over $20,000 for a new modern Indian cycle. Who's to say than a new F612 can't do the same?

Craig

Westerly Wood said:

So the 612 is to 12 strings as Martin' D-45 is to 6?

(I'd still prefer a Guild over a D-45�&#56832

Click to expand...

I forgot to say that the F612 was definitely outstanding. The Martin D45 is also great compared to most 6 string guitars. But I don't think the comparison is the same due to the coolness factor of the F612.

I do prefer my Guild D55 and F50 over the Martin D45, mainly because the Guild guitar/ fret geometry suits me better, and I like the sound regardless of the cost. Another aspect is that I have actually sound demo'd a few D42, D45 & OM42's that I just did not like the sound of those few particular guitars. Unfortunately I baulked on buying a truly beautiful slightly used 1990's D45 where the sticker price was $5200. The timing was bad for me, and of course that D45 did not last long at all before it sold. I also recently played a new 2013 Gibson SJ200 that sounded exceptionally nice- but again I already had 2 -3 years of good playing on my Guild D55 at the time and at about 1/2 the new elevated cost of the SJ200.

So back to wistful F612 thinking, it would be an exceptional guitar and would be for a discriminating player that of course is a 12 string enthusiast. I have homed my 12 string songs down to what works for me. What I have found is that songs where a 12 string was used originally will mostly work for me, then the tricky part is to pick non 12 string songs (4+20 & Helplessly hoping by CSN) and see if they will work as a 12 string song. Sometimes the song selection outcome for 12 string is even better than I anticipated.

Here is John Denver playing his F612 #1 in 1971: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYryU5b_10k

Here is John Denver playing his F612 #2 with vine and berries fret inlays in 1982: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHZgIlYSgiA

I believe that his F612's had more bass sound to them due to being tuned down to D and then capo's up 2 frets. He is also playing Bells of Rhymney (in 1982) in drop D tuning (or drop C tuning, capo'd up 2) which puts the overall tone even lower. But I do like the fingerpicking in that song. Maybe JD required the F612 to match that voice of his.

They do sound very nice but all I could do is look at it. Way too big for me. I had an F-412 for quite awhile but never could get used to the huge lower bout.

It took Martin a long time to sell the J12SOs it made. Just thinkin'. http://www.martinguitar.com/component/k2/item/169-j12so-sing-out-60th-pete-seeger.html?Itemid=6

idealassets said:

I forgot to say that the F612 was definitely outstanding. The Martin D45 is also great compared to most 6 string guitars. But I don't think the comparison is the same due to the coolness factor of the F612.

I do prefer my Guild D55 and F50 over the Martin D45, mainly because the Guild guitar/ fret geometry suits me better, and I like the sound regardless of the cost. Another aspect is that I have actually sound demo'd a few D42, D45 & OM42's that I just did not like the sound of those few particular guitars. Unfortunately I baulked on buying a truly beautiful slightly used 1990's D45 where the sticker price was $5200. The timing was bad for me, and of course that D45 did not last long at all before it sold. I also recently played a new 2013 Gibson SJ200 that sounded exceptionally nice- but again I already had 2 -3 years of good playing on my Guild D55 at the time and at about 1/2 the new elevated cost of the SJ200.

So back to wistful F612 thinking, it would be an exceptional guitar and would be for a discriminating player that of course is a 12 string enthusiast. I have homed my 12 string songs down to what works for me. What I have found is that songs where a 12 string was used originally will mostly work for me, then the tricky part is to pick non 12 string songs (4+20 & Helplessly hoping by CSN) and see if they will work as a 12 string song. Sometimes the song selection outcome for 12 string is even better than I anticipated.

Click to expand...

This topic always makes me chuckle. I think everything is a 12-string song, or a bassoon song, or a tuba song. I just did this with my 512 (at 5AM, no effects). Is it a "12-string song", or just a mutilated song?
https://soundcloud.com/atkinsonkw/where-or-when

charliea said:

It took Martin a long time to sell the J12SOs it made. Just thinkin'. http://www.martinguitar.com/component/k2/item/169-j12so-sing-out-60th-pete-seeger.html?Itemid=6

Click to expand...

What a dumb idea. Who wants to play like Pete Seeger today anyway?! Martin also makes a straight J12-40, and the only artist that I know who plays one is Michael Nesmith.

Back in 1965 I heard Pete Seeger play a wonderful solo concert in Macky Auditorium at the University of Colorado. While he played banjo on many songs, he also played 6 and 12 string acoustic guitar.

A London luthier by the name of Stan Francis built a few 12 string guitars in his garage. Pete was on tour in England when he happened upon one of them. He bought it and contacted Francis to build him another as a backup.

Three weeks ago I was in No.Tom Vintage Guitar store on London's famous Denmark St:




When I spied this:



Yep, this is exactly the same model guitar I heard Pete filling the room with back in 1965! These are long scale instruments and it was difficult for me to play. But the sound was THERE!

Very unique instrument and I feel extremely lucky to have been able to actually see and play one. There are very few around.

Bill

"Who wants to play like Pete Seeger today anyway?"

Why would anyone want to play like anyone else, ever?

But people do and usually we take up an instrument after being inspired by the music of someone. I got my first guitar after hearing Jimi Hendrix's *Axis: Bold as Love* in 1968.

For me there are worse people to be inspired by than Pete Seeger. I've found that people who knock Seeger (I've been among them) don't know the full range of what he did, as I didn't.

Seeger gave us "Living in the Country," one of the great 12-string guitar instrumentals, covered by Leo Kottke, as well as the very original *Goofing Off Suite* album on Folkways, an all instrumental record, which includes Seeger's sublime arrangement for banjo of Irving Berlin's "Blue Skies," which Tony Trischka recently performed live on NPR's *On Point*.

*Goofing Off Suite* was also used as soundtrack music by the Cohen Brothers. I don't think Seeger is ready for the "irrelevant" file just yet.

I shudder everytime someone praises John Denver here -- when I was growing up, that guy was the enemy of good taste -- but that's what makes ballgames.

Guitars, however, ought to be taken on their own merits, no? You don't have to want to play like Duane Eddie to appreciate the guitar Guild made with his name on it.

Whether Seeger is your cup of tea or not doesn't mean the guitar Martin made sucks (though it might -- I've never come across one).

Yeah, Pete's music wasn't for everyone… and he WAS a full blown Communist.

But he DID write a bunch of songs amongst which are:

* THE HAMMER SONG (If I Had a Hammer)

* TURN! TURN! TURN!

* BELLS OF RHYMNEY


He did just fine with the royalties he received for those songs. And since he always maintained his residence in a log cabin he built himself in Beacon, NY, his living expenses were minimal.

If you never heard him live in concert, you missed something very special no matter what your musical tastes or political leanings are.

wileypickett said:

"Who wants to play like Pete Seeger today anyway?"

Why would anyone want to play like anyone else, ever?

But people do and usually we take up an instrument after being inspired by the music of someone. I got my first guitar after hearing Jimi Hendrix's *Axis: Bold as Love* in 1968.

For me there are worse people to be inspired by than Pete Seeger. I've found that people who knock Seeger (I've been among them) don't know the full range of what he did, as I didn't.

Seeger gave us "Living in the Country," one of the great 12-string guitar instrumentals, covered by Leo Kottke, as well as the very original *Goofing Off Suite* album on Folkways, an all instrumental record, which includes Seeger's sublime arrangement for banjo of Irving Berlin's "Blue Skies," which Tony Trischka recently performed live on NPR's *On Point*.

*Goofing Off Suite* was also used as soundtrack music by the Cohen Brothers. I don't think Seeger is ready for the "irrelevant" file just yet.

I shudder everytime someone praises John Denver here -- when I was growing up, that guy was the enemy of good taste -- but that's what makes ballgames.

Guitars, however, ought to be taken on their own merits, no? You don't have to want to play like Duane Eddie to appreciate the guitar Guild made with his name on it.

Whether Seeger is your cup of tea or not doesn't mean the guitar Martin made sucks (though it might -- I've never come across one).

Click to expand...

I DO play Pete Seeger's songs, and I am a fan, but I play them in the style of the Byrds or Leo Kottke. Bells of Rhymney, Turn Turn Turn, & Living In The Country. What I was saying can be interpreted to mean why pay so much money to use the same guitar model as Pete Seeger did? (And thus sounding much like Pete Seeger).

As for John Denver, yes I extremely disliked him in the day. We used to sing "Fly Away" with a nasal whine at work in jest of his song playing on the radio in the office. But I began to like him the first time I knew he played so much on Guild guitars. And Get Back!- I bought my first John Denver CD about 2 years ago, and I find that today if you play his stuff it does work a crowd. But after living a few years in Boston I'm not so certain it would work there.

Ok I'll admit that I made lots of money at the time that john Denver was very popular. We played Hendrix, Frampton, Bad Co., and Allman Bro's. That's what the paying crowds wanted. We had absolutely no John Denver song requests for all those years; he catered to a different crowd.

But JD was clever enough to make his F612's work for him for over 10 years, so that is noteworthy.

CG

I liked JD's music from the very start. Over 33 million others apparently agreed with me because that's how many records he sold. One account lists him as the #1 selling artist of the 70's decade.

Even after two very expensive divorces, JD left his two kids an estate valued at over $23MM. Yep, there used to be serious money to be made in the music business...