Ren leaving Guild?

adorshki said:

No snark intended but now are you going to match the smoothness/gloss of the finishes? are you sure the fiberglass resin is compatible with the poly? I'm talking about somebody who may want to repair a major ding on the top without compromising tone, I've never seen anything here yet indicating that's "easy" . Granted this is the only place I look, most of the time.
Now if Taylor has a patch method they divulge on their site, I would consider thatto be "real" for lack of a better term at the moment.

Oops posted by boo boo , not done Tee hee ... ��

I just kinda picked that as an arbitrary price point above which I'd expect my luthier to be able to repair a finish ding with no headache.

Right we understand that, but it still don't age. It's "Forever Young" as I mentioned elsewhere.

OK I'll read it but if I see anything corroborating my points you can be sure I'll post it all over the internet.


Well that's no fun.
:biggrin-new:

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Gloss ? Huh I'm gunna say yeah sure but I may shake my fist at ya later lol

The aging part if you ask me haha yeah it will look all shiney and new if you don't use it . My old Yamaha was poly and she aged wood wise now I had it outside a lot in the sun over the yrs she turned a nice Amber color that was in Florida beach side . Should have never sold it ,

If it will get beat up looking and the top can still color change and deliver great tone that works for me better then a kracle glass collection on my guitar . But hey talk about it anymore they have crack resistant NCL Yaaaaaay

I might be doing a NCL repair as my Cv fell over and chip inbetween the tuner and the NCL Is stained now that gets my goat

Lacidar said:

Hi, Chazmo. Thanks for your welcome and your advice. Each sincerely appreciated.

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Welcome aboard Lacidar!
Catching up here, my apologies for being consumed in a couple ofour famous "veers" and not noticing a new member sooner.
It looks like you're already comfortable fitting in with that custom, so enjoy your visits and please do let us know how the search goes!

My thoroughly abused '81 D-35 has the thinnest finish around...zero!

Neal said:

My thoroughly abused '81 D-35 has the thinnest finish around...zero!

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Neal, I love that guitar! So simple yet looks both mean and elegant all at the same time. Huge chip on its shoulder this D35. Don't anyone dare look at it sideways...

Rayk said:

Gloss ? Huh I'm gunna say yeah sure but I may shake my fist at ya later lol

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That's the spirit! :biggrin-new:
Good point though, I usually assume "gloss" even though the dull/satins are ever-more popular.
Even then I bear in mind what Kostas said about a patch on poly looking exactly like that, a "patch"
In fact, with several contributors kind permission I'm gonna go revive my "finishes" thread as it seems a more appropriate place to continue the discussion:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?188931-Finishes&highlight=finishes
And to get back on track, yes I remember clearly that Ren was reputedly already looking forward to his Montana retirement before Cordoba coaxed him into contributing some extra time.
Thanks for everything Mr. Ferguson and enjoy your retirement any way you see fit!

Westerly Wood said:

Neal, I love that guitar! So simple yet looks both mean and elegant all at the same time. Huge chip on its shoulder this D35. Don't anyone dare look at it sideways...

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Best $151.00 I ever spent...well, add another $10 for all the sandpaper I went through to extract it from its sprayed-on prison. Probably a tad more than 6 mil.

oh the adhesive!
I think I might like the F20 even better...

Lacidar,

[I've been working in the Middle East for quite some time now]

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I have one word for you , then...HUMIDIFICATION !

txbumper57 said:

The thing with reproducing the Orpheums is that to the best of my knowledge Ren was the only one that made the transition from New Hartford to Oxnard. Everyone else who had a hand in Building the Orpheums that Ren trained either went back to work for Ovation in New Hartford or moved on from Guild when the sale went through and Guild ceased production in New Hartford. The Orpheum series draws it's characteristics as much from the way they were built using vintage traditional assembly techniques similar to the "Golden Era" of Guitar making as they do from the materials that they were made from. They could have 5 examples on hand of each Orpheum model to study and reverse engineer but without the knowledge of the way they were built there is a good chance they won't be able to recreate them accurately. The Knowledge that Ren has is the key to making the Orpheums what they were in my opinion.

As far as traditional and Iconic Guild models are concerned there is now no one working at the Oxnard facility who worked at New Hartford. Seems far fetched to think they will be able to recreate the "Magic" that the New Hartford models are so well known for having. Maybe they will create some new magic of their own, Only time will tell. For sure we can say that a wonderful era of Guild Guitars has officially come to a close with Ren's retirement.

TX

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I think this post is pretty much right on the mark.

Neal said:

Best $151.00 I ever spent...well, add another $10 for all the sandpaper I went through to extract it from its sprayed-on prison. Probably a tad more than 6 mil.

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Gosh, I love when Gloppy makes an appearance. Neal, endless admiration for saving this campfire guitar, and when I say "campfire" I mean as in "what was wood for the campfire can now be played around the campfire."

It was a crime against humanity, what the previous owner did to a perfectly good guitar!

Action is fine (has a little belly) tone is wonderful, cracks don't seem to hurt it at all.

I want one to !

I think we're all pretty fond of Gloppy and what Neal did to resurrect that poor guitar!! I'm a fan, for sure!! :encouragement:

Gloppy sits on a stand in my living room, given that I have no case for her. Humidification not required...

She actually gets a good bit of playing time, sitting on the couch.

Neal said:

She actually gets a good bit of playing time, sitting on the couch.

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So she can sit up by herself now?

adorshki said:

So she can sit up by herself now?

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Have to give her a treat first ! Lol

txbumper57 said:

The thing with reproducing the Orpheums is that to the best of my knowledge Ren was the only one that made the transition from New Hartford to Oxnard. Everyone else who had a hand in Building the Orpheums that Ren trained either went back to work for Ovation in New Hartford or moved on from Guild when the sale went through and Guild ceased production in New Hartford. The Orpheum series draws it's characteristics as much from the way they were built using vintage traditional assembly techniques similar to the "Golden Era" of Guitar making as they do from the materials that they were made from. They could have 5 examples on hand of each Orpheum model to study and reverse engineer but without the knowledge of the way they were built there is a good chance they won't be able to recreate them accurately. The Knowledge that Ren has is the key to making the Orpheums what they were in my opinion.

As far as traditional and Iconic Guild models are concerned there is now no one working at the Oxnard facility who worked at New Hartford. Seems far fetched to think they will be able to recreate the "Magic" that the New Hartford models are so well known for having. Maybe they will create some new magic of their own, Only time will tell. For sure we can say that a wonderful era of Guild Guitars has officially come to a close with Ren's retirement.

TX

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dapmdave said:

I think this post is pretty much right on the mark.

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Just because I am feeling somewhat contrary, let me observe that the profit motive was always a factor when Guild was owned by FMIC and there is no reason to believe that has changed under Cordoba. So from a business standpoint, it is stupidly unprofitable to produce and sell a product that depends upon the skills of one individual.

Thus either:

The Orpheum was intended to be a Ren Ferguson project and when Ren stopped working on them then Guild stopped making them.

OR

The skills and expertise required to make an Orpheum can be acquired and trained.

I don't really know which was Guild's intention but if it is the latter case I think the only relevance to comments about workforce turnover is that there has not been enough time to actually demonstrate that the necessary skills can be learned.

Personally I think we need to wait about five years (Fall 2021, I'm looking at you). By that time if Guild thinks they can remake the Orpheums they will be in a position to do so. If they don't even try then they are either unprofitable or Ren's baby. If they do make them then we can have objective debates concerning what has changed and how the new Orpheums compare to the originals.

And if an Orpheum were my Grail Guitar I'd be saving my money, scouring ads and buying every one that came on the market and reselling all but the one that speaks to me most.

IMO. YMMV.

P. S. - I am, of course, limiting my sweeping generalizations to a manufactured product that will be in production over a serious of years which is a reasonable description of Guild. The most likely way for the Ren Fergerson Guitar Company to make money would be sell instruments made by or supervised by Ren. But when he stops, the business stops or dramatically reinvents itself.

We can argue all day long whether or not Guild is capable of making more Orpheums without Ren, but ultimately, time will tell. As good as these guitars sound the reality is that they do tend to be available used, so anyone interested in getting one should be able to within a reasonable amount of time, and for less than the price new. And if the Orpheums are not able to be accurately reproduced, how will the AP's or any other guitar be accurately reproduced? I was also under the impression that all new Guild acoustics will be constructed using the orpheum as a template. If this is the case Orpheums should be back eventually and as good as ever. There is a lot of talent in the world, and specifically within Cordoba, so I will remain optimistic.

I like arguing all day... I shoulda' been a lawyer.

I don't know if new Guilds will be Orpheum-like or not. The Orpheum concept, as you all know, was to build the pre-war guitars that Guild never made. Is that popular enough to set their sights on?

As an interesting note, the first guitars out of Oxnard are using a catalyzed varnish finish that Guild never used before. So, we'll see how "out-of-the-box" things get over the next few years. IMO, it's the traditional range-topper Guilds that Oxnard has to get good at. And I mean soon! People want F-50s, for example, and they need to get going of they're going to lose customers. Building Orpheums... yeah, maybe, down the line. I just don't see that being a priority, especially with Ren retiring... And, not because Ren is needed to build them, but because it's peanuts in the overall Guild game.

quote from frono:


And if an Orpheum were my Grail Guitar I'd be saving my money, scouring ads and buying every one that came on the market and reselling all but the one that speaks to me most.

IMO. YMMV.

frono.....kind of what I'm doing but with a little twist.....I've acquired five in the last year: 12 fret hog slope burst, jumbo hog nt, 14 fret hog slope burst, and two 14 fret rw slope nt.....the 12 fret was not a good fit for me, it's gone...the jumbo didn't "move me" like I thought it would (I'll always wonder if I didn't keep it long enough to break in that adi top), sold it.....now the three 14 frets, hog and rw, are left, and like you said, I'm looking for the one that speaks to me the most.....as I was selling off my Taylors and my Martin, all with electronics, I decided to put a pickup in the hog...the baggs anthem didn't seem to fit the vintage bracing and bridge design, so I went with the K&K Trinity solo, run it stereo through a DTAR Solstice and it's awesome.....here's the twist I mentioned...as I decide on a favorite, I may trade, rather than sell, if, at some point I get a chance to play a Collings, an H&D, a Bourgeois, or a Goodall.....if a guitar like that sounds like an Orf and has the neck and play-ability of a Taylor, that would be my "grail", and then I would be willing to let go of one of my last Orpheums.....in the mean time, my 14 fret slopes, hog and rw, are the ones for me and my rhythm style...and yes, they do get better and better as the adi tops get more and more hours on them. absolutely no doubt about it! this has been a great discussion about Guild, Ren and Orpheums!