Graham
Venerated Member
Re: 12 string's 12strings
Welcome Chas, I saw your post on AGF.
Lovely guitars the 512.
Welcome Chas, I saw your post on AGF.
Lovely guitars the 512.
12 string's 12 strings
- Thread starter 12 string
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Re: 12 string's 12strings
Hi Graham.
Yes, I'm sure enjoying playing the F512!! Best wishes.
Hi Graham.
Yes, I'm sure enjoying playing the F512!! Best wishes.
Re: 12 string's 12strings
That's a total of 96 strings there to tune, clean and change every now and then. Do you do it yourself, or have an assistant?
Please don't tell me you have the strings arranged in a custom manner, (like we have been talking about in another post).
I would LOVE to hear at least half of those guitars light up all together in one room. What a sound that would be!
That's a total of 96 strings there to tune, clean and change every now and then. Do you do it yourself, or have an assistant?
Please don't tell me you have the strings arranged in a custom manner, (like we have been talking about in another post).
I would LOVE to hear at least half of those guitars light up all together in one room. What a sound that would be!
GuildFS4612CE
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Re: 12 string's 12strings
Can you imagine being the roadie for that collection :?: :lol:
Oh, wait...he's a Conductor...OF COURSE HE HAS AN ASSISTANT. :mrgreen:
Can you imagine being the roadie for that collection :?: :lol:
Oh, wait...he's a Conductor...OF COURSE HE HAS AN ASSISTANT. :mrgreen:
Re: 12 string's 12strings
Its not just that their 12s. its that they're all so beautiful. 12string -- can you possibly have a favorite?
Its not just that their 12s. its that they're all so beautiful. 12string -- can you possibly have a favorite?
Re: 12 string's 12strings
GuildFS4612CE said:Can you imagine being the roadie for that collection :?: :lol:
I would LOVE it!
Hey, 12 string, I notice one of them has a side mounted, factory installed preamp. Don't know of any Guild 12-string that has such a feature. What gives?
huitzlopochtli
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Re: 12 string's 12strings
No I haven't...I haven't actually played any guild 6-string. There was a nice d-25, and an f-30-56 i saw on craigslist for about 750 each the other day tho...
Scratch said:
No I haven't...I haven't actually played any guild 6-string. There was a nice d-25, and an f-30-56 i saw on craigslist for about 750 each the other day tho...
Re: 12 string's 12strings
Huitzl,
You talking about the F 30 on Dallas CL, I noticed it was on when we got back from Arlington.
It'd be an interesting model to play.
Found this picture on Wikpedia, playing an Aztec bass ?? Maybe a guitar.
I could see a Woodstock here:
huitzlopochtli said:
Huitzl,
You talking about the F 30 on Dallas CL, I noticed it was on when we got back from Arlington.
It'd be an interesting model to play.
Found this picture on Wikpedia, playing an Aztec bass ?? Maybe a guitar.
I could see a Woodstock here:
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Re: 12 string's 12strings
Hi Chaz, great seeing you over on this side of town!
Chazmo said:
Hi Chaz, great seeing you over on this side of town!
12 string
Senior Member
Re: 12 string's 12strings
Hi, y'all. Thanks so much for all your kind responses, public and private! I'll answer the questions as best I can.
I'm not sure if I've ever had more than 3 of the 12ers going at once, there is a saturation point. I do especially like pairing guitars with different guaging and set-up, for example, a guitar tuned 4 frets low, dropped D (concert B flat) using D positions with another tuned 3 frets high using G positions, or one guitar tuned to standard with one 3 frets low using E and G positions respectively, that kind of thing. I've always liked doing this kind of thing with 6ers and capos, but with 12ers and capos by the time you get everybody tuned together nobody wants to play anymore!
I AM the roadie around here, it's a lot of work, but fun. I guess my favorite guitar is the one that's in my arms at any given minute. The 512 really is the best, by far. I bought the F-212XL used from George Gruhn and it came with the Fishman Stereo Blender. The Guild website has manuals for Fishman products used, and a list of what guitar models got what pick-up, only the list seems incomplete.
The conducting thing - I was a music teacher, retiring in 2005. I was a high school choral specialist, but at different times in my career I taught all subject areas in the music curriculum at every age level. By the way, that pic is about 20 years old. This one's even older:
Here's one of me on a New York City tour bus last month.
Thanks again,
David
Hi, y'all. Thanks so much for all your kind responses, public and private! I'll answer the questions as best I can.
I'm not sure if I've ever had more than 3 of the 12ers going at once, there is a saturation point. I do especially like pairing guitars with different guaging and set-up, for example, a guitar tuned 4 frets low, dropped D (concert B flat) using D positions with another tuned 3 frets high using G positions, or one guitar tuned to standard with one 3 frets low using E and G positions respectively, that kind of thing. I've always liked doing this kind of thing with 6ers and capos, but with 12ers and capos by the time you get everybody tuned together nobody wants to play anymore!
I AM the roadie around here, it's a lot of work, but fun. I guess my favorite guitar is the one that's in my arms at any given minute. The 512 really is the best, by far. I bought the F-212XL used from George Gruhn and it came with the Fishman Stereo Blender. The Guild website has manuals for Fishman products used, and a list of what guitar models got what pick-up, only the list seems incomplete.
The conducting thing - I was a music teacher, retiring in 2005. I was a high school choral specialist, but at different times in my career I taught all subject areas in the music curriculum at every age level. By the way, that pic is about 20 years old. This one's even older:
Here's one of me on a New York City tour bus last month.
Thanks again,
David
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Re: 12 string's 12strings
12 string (aka David),
I like the white beard, Daddy-O.
I like it so much I got one, too!
A few quick questions (that you are under no obligation to answer):
Do you have any Gibson 12 string guitars?
When you say that the F-512 is by far the best, how does it compare
to the G312 with the smaller (albeit rosewood) body? Is it a 'volume judgement',
or is the 512 just a superior guitar?
I don't care about the Martin, but what kind of Goya?
Is is a much-coveted student model, short scale '60's G-10 (like I have!), or is it a real guitar?
Thanks and I'll take my answers off the Air!
12 string (aka David),
I like the white beard, Daddy-O.
I like it so much I got one, too!
A few quick questions (that you are under no obligation to answer):
Do you have any Gibson 12 string guitars?
When you say that the F-512 is by far the best, how does it compare
to the G312 with the smaller (albeit rosewood) body? Is it a 'volume judgement',
or is the 512 just a superior guitar?
I don't care about the Martin, but what kind of Goya?
Is is a much-coveted student model, short scale '60's G-10 (like I have!), or is it a real guitar?
Thanks and I'll take my answers off the Air!
FNG
Enlightened Member
Re: 12 string's 12strings
Nice pile of wood!! How do you like the Taylor 600 Spec?
Nice pile of wood!! How do you like the Taylor 600 Spec?
GuildFS4612CE
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Re: 12 string's 12strings
Retired....how nice.
You've actually got time to play all those twelves. :mrgreen:
If you get bored you could always get a Holiday side job.....Rudolph must be around here somewhere, anybody seen him?
Retired....how nice.
You've actually got time to play all those twelves. :mrgreen:
If you get bored you could always get a Holiday side job.....Rudolph must be around here somewhere, anybody seen him?
GuildFS4612CE
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Re: 12 string's 12strings
:lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol:
:lol: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol:
JerryR
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Re: 12 string's 12strings
That'll pi$$ off Gary - he had the Santa job cornered :mrgreen: Still, Gary could cover the Southern hemisphere, and 12 String the Northern
GuildFS4612CE said:Retired....how nice.
You've actually got time to play all those twelves. :mrgreen:
If you get bored you could always get a Holiday side job.....Rudolph must be around here somewhere, anybody seen him?
That'll pi$$ off Gary - he had the Santa job cornered :mrgreen: Still, Gary could cover the Southern hemisphere, and 12 String the Northern
12 string
Senior Member
Re: 12 string's 12strings
FNG, the 600 SPEC is a true gem. The top is definitely a much higher quality top than the one on my 855. The guitar sparkles with clarity and the bass has some real backbone, more than most of the maple guitars I've played. The maple is spectacular. All the inlays are abalone; the purfling around the top, rosette, "Taylor" headstock inlay, and position markers, which are dot-sized 6 pointed asterisks or stars in an ebony fingerboard on a maple neck. Ebony bridge. The headstock overlay is cocobolo as is the thin wedge on the back. The binding and heelcap look more like EIR. I have added bone nut and compensated saddle.
Gilded, I think it's the body type and size which gives the 512 a grand piano kind of sound which the dred doesn't have. The quality of the build and the materials are pretty comparable, except for the 512 bling. The Goya is a 1962 TS-5, a maple dred 12er. It has been re-topped and has hybrid X and ladder bracing and a Guild bridge. The Gibsons include a B-45 12 which I bought new at Manny's in NYC in 1966. I also have the Epiphone version of that and two smaller B-25 12s.
Two of the Guilds here were in an earlier pic. The Gibsons seem almost obsolete now (though they're great for slide), the newer models are so much more playable.
David
FNG, the 600 SPEC is a true gem. The top is definitely a much higher quality top than the one on my 855. The guitar sparkles with clarity and the bass has some real backbone, more than most of the maple guitars I've played. The maple is spectacular. All the inlays are abalone; the purfling around the top, rosette, "Taylor" headstock inlay, and position markers, which are dot-sized 6 pointed asterisks or stars in an ebony fingerboard on a maple neck. Ebony bridge. The headstock overlay is cocobolo as is the thin wedge on the back. The binding and heelcap look more like EIR. I have added bone nut and compensated saddle.
Gilded, I think it's the body type and size which gives the 512 a grand piano kind of sound which the dred doesn't have. The quality of the build and the materials are pretty comparable, except for the 512 bling. The Goya is a 1962 TS-5, a maple dred 12er. It has been re-topped and has hybrid X and ladder bracing and a Guild bridge. The Gibsons include a B-45 12 which I bought new at Manny's in NYC in 1966. I also have the Epiphone version of that and two smaller B-25 12s.
Two of the Guilds here were in an earlier pic. The Gibsons seem almost obsolete now (though they're great for slide), the newer models are so much more playable.
David
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Re: 12 string's 12strings
Regards,
cj
Hi David; remarkable collection of guitars! I wonder if you could take a minute or two and sort of compare and contrast the Gibsons with the Guilds; tone, fit/finish, character, build standard, whatever. Many members own Taylors and Martins and of course Guilds but we don't hear much about Gibsons. Anyway, I'd like to read some remarks about what, if anything, they do well or points you think relegate them 2nd tier; if in fact they are. Thank you.12 string said:
Regards,
cj
Re: 12 string's 12strings
David,
I darn sure appreciate the 512 vs. 312 rundown.
Thanks for the info on the Goya. Did the re-top happen under your stewardship of the instrument? I talked my luthier into re-topping a '57 D-28 once (the top had been thinned down to the point of no return by a previous owner). We re-topped it in Adirondack, using bracing patterns from a '38 D-28 and a '37 D-18. Sounded great.
I, too, would like to hear about the Gibson characteristics vs the other 12 string guitars, though I think you have answered the question in part, when you relegate their use to slide. By the way, you beat me to Manny's by about 5 years.
I did notice that one of your smaller Gibson 12s has a pin bridge, while the other Gibbies don't. Do you have a comment on the difference between a pin bridge Gibson 12 vs. the same size Gibson 12 with a trapeze?
I had a pin bridge B-45-12 (modification) and I have a loaner B-45-12 now (collateral for a debt; out of respect, I rarely play it), but I never had a chance to compare the two together. My memory is that the trapeze 45 has a quiet, but pretty kind of sound and the pin bridge model was a little more robust, but nothing special.
It always seemed to me that, by using a trapeze tailpiece, Gibson totally changed the functionality of the top bracing.
Another way of saying that is to say a tail-piece is used at 'cross purpose' to the original intention of the top braces.
A pin bridge guitar's string pressure 'pulls up'. To account for that, modern X bracing and most of the lateral braces are designed to with-stand the 200-250 lbs (that's a guess) of 'pull up' string pressure. On a trapeze guitar, the string pressure 'pushes down'. The top doesn't get loaded in the same way (downward pressure), yet the bracing is the same (designed to resist upward tension).
That's my thought about the matter. I'm sure your experience will triumph over my conjecture, though. Thanks again for all the interesting posts.
gilded
David,
I darn sure appreciate the 512 vs. 312 rundown.
Thanks for the info on the Goya. Did the re-top happen under your stewardship of the instrument? I talked my luthier into re-topping a '57 D-28 once (the top had been thinned down to the point of no return by a previous owner). We re-topped it in Adirondack, using bracing patterns from a '38 D-28 and a '37 D-18. Sounded great.
I, too, would like to hear about the Gibson characteristics vs the other 12 string guitars, though I think you have answered the question in part, when you relegate their use to slide. By the way, you beat me to Manny's by about 5 years.
I did notice that one of your smaller Gibson 12s has a pin bridge, while the other Gibbies don't. Do you have a comment on the difference between a pin bridge Gibson 12 vs. the same size Gibson 12 with a trapeze?
I had a pin bridge B-45-12 (modification) and I have a loaner B-45-12 now (collateral for a debt; out of respect, I rarely play it), but I never had a chance to compare the two together. My memory is that the trapeze 45 has a quiet, but pretty kind of sound and the pin bridge model was a little more robust, but nothing special.
It always seemed to me that, by using a trapeze tailpiece, Gibson totally changed the functionality of the top bracing.
Another way of saying that is to say a tail-piece is used at 'cross purpose' to the original intention of the top braces.
A pin bridge guitar's string pressure 'pulls up'. To account for that, modern X bracing and most of the lateral braces are designed to with-stand the 200-250 lbs (that's a guess) of 'pull up' string pressure. On a trapeze guitar, the string pressure 'pushes down'. The top doesn't get loaded in the same way (downward pressure), yet the bracing is the same (designed to resist upward tension).
That's my thought about the matter. I'm sure your experience will triumph over my conjecture, though. Thanks again for all the interesting posts.
gilded
Re: 12 string's 12strings
Gilded,
I was thinking about your post, and that's an interesting point about the bracing. I'd say you're probably right. You could probably have much more flexibility in the bracing pattern reinforcing a trapeze's saddle than a pin bridge/saddle. That said, while the back of a pin bridge needs to be anchored from pulling up, the front of the bridge (toward the soundhole) is pushing down. Really the whole thing wants to twist. With a trapeze, the only pressure on the saddle is down.
I'm guessing on this, but in terms of sound transmission, though, there's probably little difference between the two. What goes on behind the saddle (i.e., how the strings are anchored) is presumably not very significant in producing resonance in the body of the guitar. It's at the saddle itself and forward along the vibrating string that matters.
I'm not too sure about that though. I've never played a trapeze. Does the metal vibrate when strumming the guitar (I'm guessing not very much)?
Gilded,
I was thinking about your post, and that's an interesting point about the bracing. I'd say you're probably right. You could probably have much more flexibility in the bracing pattern reinforcing a trapeze's saddle than a pin bridge/saddle. That said, while the back of a pin bridge needs to be anchored from pulling up, the front of the bridge (toward the soundhole) is pushing down. Really the whole thing wants to twist. With a trapeze, the only pressure on the saddle is down.
I'm guessing on this, but in terms of sound transmission, though, there's probably little difference between the two. What goes on behind the saddle (i.e., how the strings are anchored) is presumably not very significant in producing resonance in the body of the guitar. It's at the saddle itself and forward along the vibrating string that matters.
I'm not too sure about that though. I've never played a trapeze. Does the metal vibrate when strumming the guitar (I'm guessing not very much)?