12 string's 12 strings

[taabru45]

You must have one of those mutant Guilds, that are so rare! :lol: Steffan

 

[6L6]

SWEEEEET collection!

6

'06 F-412

 

[12 string]

Just wanted to revive this thread to have another look at 'Strang's wonderful collection.

Hey, anyone ever played a Bozo? I'd never heard of them until recently, but someone was pointing out that they were pretty important in the evolution of the 12-string.

Thanks for bringing it up again, 'Mo. Capnjuan has gotten after me to explain my string gauging methodology, so I'm going to try. BTW I got to play a Bozo rosewood dread a couple of times in the early '70s. HUGE sound and very playable neck.

I love having guitars of different make, size, body shape, and wood combination and I also love having a variety of different string set-ups as well. I keep a dealer's inventory of single string gauges and custom blend my own sets. I bought "starter kits" which got me the same boxes you see in the music stores. Very handy. I buy replacements in bulk as needed. It's expensive to start with but cheaper in the long run.

I'll start with the set I use for standard pitch. some people prefer to tune this set a M2 or 2 frets low to reduce stress on the guitar and/or for ease of playing, and that's fine; this methodology works for all.


--E---------------B----------------G-----------------D-------------------A------------------E
.010------------.014--------------.023-------------.030-----------------.039---------------.047
.010------------.014--------------.008-------------.012-----------------.020w------------- .027

The .020w isn't standard in commercial sets, but it greatly improves the sound of the guitar. Some of them break but it's still worth it.

Now let's figure out a set for a very low Lead Belly range. The strings for the 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th courses come directly from the set above, shifted to the next higher position. We can extrapolate gauges strings for the 2nd and 6th courses and her's what we come up with:

--B---------------F#---------------D-----------------A--------------------E------------------B
.014-------------.018-------------.030--------------.039------------------.047--------------.058
.014-------------.018-------------.012--------------.020w---------------- .027--------------.036

This sets the parameters for any tuning in between. For a less extreme low tuning try to split the difference proportionally. A set for 2 frets low might look like this (lighter gauge players might try this at a M3 or 4 frets low, C, G, Eb, Bb, F, C):

--D----------------A---------------F------------------C--------------------G--------------------D
.012--------------.016------------.025---------------.032-----------------.042-----------------.050
.012--------------.016------------.010---------------.014-----------------.022-----------------.030

If I want to make a set to stay in dropped D tuning for the life of the set I beef up the 6th course a little. Beefing up the 5th and 1st courses as well makes a good open G set. Similarly, you can microadjust to any specialized tuning you want. Right now one of my little Gibsons is strung from .008-.044 and tuned a m3 or 3 frets high. I have constructed a chart of string set gauges for standard, and each of 1-5 frets low. When I want to try a really oddball set like the high one above, I figure out what note names I need, find as many as I can on my chart, and extrapolate the rest.

I often increase choral effect in the treble by mismatching strrings, using a .011 and a .013 instead of two .012s, for example.

One of my main reasons for posting this is that most of the commercially available "medium" and "heavy" gauge sets are very bass-heavy and put an inordinate amount of tension on the guitar, even when staying within their recommended tunings. It's better to think in terms of actual numerical string guages because terms like "light", "medium" and "heavy" mean different things to different manufacturers.This method employs more proportional increases in string gauges for lower tunings and keeps the overall tension on the guitar at about the same level.

Here's a useful resource:

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... ng-Tension

Here's more of my critique of certain string sets:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/foru ... p?t=108278

Hope this makes sense,

' Strang

 

[Guildmark]

Hey, anyone ever played a Bozo? I'd never heard of them until recently, but someone was pointing out that they were pretty important in the evolution of the 12-string.

Leo Kottke has owned a few Bozos. This photo is when he is pretty young. The autograpgh is written to Bozo himself!
I'd have to look to be certain, but I think the liner sleeve of Kottke's Chewing Pine LP has a photo of the Bozo used on that album. About 1976.


Also, David (california) actually played one at a shop in Chicago many years ago. I was impressed!

Here's some more info on Bozo, himself.
http://guitars.net/bozo.htm

 

[12 string]

Some of us have had some discussions about what might be the "Holy Grail" of 12 string guitars. The general agreement is that the Guild F-612 would be it, but for some it might be the pre-Harmony Stella as played by Lead Belly and Willie McTell. For me, the 12 string Holy Grail has always been the Pete Seeger model 12 string.

This signed drawing was given to me by one of the best friends I ever had in this life, the late Dr Anthony A. Verstraete of Penn State. When we met as students in the '60s we soon discovered that we both had caught the 12 string bug at Pete Seeger concerts at a time when 12 strings were not being manufactured or widely distributed in the US. Tony actually wrote to Seeger for advice on finding a 12 string and Pete sent back contact info for G. Stanley Francis, the luthier in the UK who built Pete's guitar. Tony wrote to Francis and got back the drawing and a letter explaining options and pricing. So a few years later when I was scarfing up every recording, newspaper or magazine article, catalog, and photo relating to 12 string guitar, Tony gave me the drawing. He always said he would give me the letter as soon as he found it, but he never did.



A very distinctive guitar indeed. I have always loved the triangular sound hole. The original had six oversize bridgepins, each one holding a pair of strings. More recent versions have 12 pins and a pyramid bridge. These things have a 28" fret scale and are rarely played without a capo somewhere on the neck, just like the Pete Seeger long neck banjo. I suspect the zero fret reduces some of the tuning problems that come with capoing a 12er. Recent Seeger 12ers have been made by Bruce Taylor of Weston CT, less than 10 miles from where I grew up. They have been featured on the cover of "Acoustic Guitar" and the "Pete Seeger at 89" CD. Pete and his grandson can be seen playing a matched pair in the "Power of Song" DVD. Extremely cool!

Maybe for a "Holy Grail" I should have someone make me an 18" monster version of this guitar.

' Strang

 

[capnjuan]

Livin' in the County; P. Seeger's song by Leo (the Younger) Kottke The first song I tried to learn finger-style on the 12-string .... still trying.

Edit: If he's still at it, Mr. Podunavac's shop is in east Englewood Fl ... not too far from Dr Izza Plumber's. Englewood is a sweet little Gulf-side town ... as charming a place as there is on FL's west coast.

 

[chazmo]

That's very cool, 'Strang! Nice piece of history there!

 

[12 string]

Somebody over at AGF had a thread about the 2003 Taylor 600 Special Edition. I think he was trying to sell a dred, and had some nice pix, which got me off my butt, finally, to put up a few of my own.

These things had spectacular flame maple backs and sides with cocobolo back wedge, binding, and heelcap:



The headstock veneer and TRC are also cocobolo:




All of the inlays, including the headstock Taylor and the fingerboard snowflakes are abalone.

The tightness of the grain and silk on the top make it look and sound kind of Guildty:



And:



When I first saw it at Music Outlet in Sevierville TN they also showed me an 800 SPEC 12 string with cocobolo back and sides with flame maple appointments. It was very pretty but it was the sound of the maple that made the sale.

Anyway, I thought some of you might be interested in the pix even if it is a T____r.

' Strang

 

[chazmo]

Holy thread revival, batman!! I do love this thread, though!! You are the lord of the 12ers, 'Strang!!

That sure is a beautiful Taylor. I have an '84 655 which has stunning, three-dimensional quilting. It needed a lot of work when I got it; the original owner was very nice, but she'd really let the axe go. Now it's a permanent part of my collection. It doesn't have any of the bling like yours, but the wood is spectacular. Yeah, those Taylor guys do know how to make a beautiful instrument.

Nice to (re) see that top-notch collection of yours, bud!

p.s./ a little sad seeing that post by capnjuan just above mine from the way-back machine.

 

[12 string]

... a little sad seeing that post by capnjuan just above mine from the way-back machine.

Yeah, and Guildmark and California are in this thread, too. Those were the days, my friend, we thought they'd never end...I think I feel a song coming on.

Thanks for the kind words, Charlie. I knew you also had a taste for those maple Taylors.

Cheers,

' Strang

 

[idealassets]

we both had caught the 12 string bug at Pete Seeger concerts at a time when 12 strings were not being manufactured or widely distributed in the US

Thats great, when so few 12 strings were being played! I liked a lot of this material when it was re-done by the Byrds, and also Paul Kantner's 12 string for Jefferson Airplane. About that same time John Phillips was adfding some great 12 string sound for the Mama's & Papa's. Those wer the signature sounds that grabbed me.

Craig

 

[chazmo]

Re: 12 string's 12strings

Greetings, 12 string! Good to see you over here.

Hi folks. Newbie here to the Guild forum. Just bought an F512 yesterday. 8)

Just reminiscing about when I joined the forum! I thought I'd posted an NGD thread for my F-512 at that point, but I think this was it.

Is that really 15 years ago? Holy moly!

 

[GGJaguar]

Time flies and look at you now. You're a Super Moderator!

 

[Cougar]

A thread after my own heart!

 

[davismanLV]

Wow, I'm seeing some old names here!!

 

[12 string]

Thanks for some great bumpage you guys!

' Strang

 

[Brucebubs]

All sold now ... but I'm getting the itch to get another one!

 

[GAD]

I've removed the Photobucket logo from all of 12-Strings photos.

 

[Westerly Wood]

All sold now ... but I'm getting the itch to get another one!

nice collection!

 

[beecee]

This has happened to me before, recently. Hopefully not age related.

I was playing an F-4CE the other night and reached up from my chair to grab that beautiful Maple bodied F-412. Did a few songs and scratched my head...when did the E string break???

So one more song, went to put it back and yup...there was the F-412. Didn't even notice I grabbed the wrong guitar. I tell ya, that JF 30-12 is a heck of a guitar but then I really dug into the F-412......the action is like a Strat, so easy to play but that sound.

Never really bonded w/a RW 12, still love my beat up old F-212 but something about the when a maple guitar is "right"....I have two great ones!!