What the heck size is a F-30 anyway?

GGJaguar · Mar 14, 2023

adorshki said:
Yes that's me you hear in the background blowing raspberries at 'em.

Me, too. In unison with Al.

adorshki · Mar 14, 2023

jedzep said:
That 11" upper bout width on your '71 is a full 3/4" narrower than mine. Almost like they couldn't decide on the best dimensions.

No, they changed the outline right around that time ('71) from the one you have with a "flat" bottom, to the rounder type as seen in Guildedagain's and Neals posts.

@E-Type: That's why you wondered if some of those F30's had 16" lower bouts. No, they just imitated the same outline change in the F40 /F47 family.

adorshki · Mar 14, 2023

GGJaguar said:
Me, too. In unison with Al.

We gotta watch out for phase cancellation. I'll warble a little.

plaidseason · Mar 14, 2023

This is one of my all-time favorite thread titles. Because it says so much.

Kudos to Oxnard for making the F40 into a 17" jumbo. Previously this upset me, but now I recognize it's in the great Guild tradition, like fluctuations in the life of the F30 in both size and scale length, or having two completely different D25 models, Oh and the D60 and the D60. I could go on . . .

chazmo · Mar 14, 2023

E-Type said:
An early 1970s F-40 might actually be more of what I'mlookin for. So hard to sort all of this out. Sadly, the ones on Reverb are $3200 and $4700.

US built F-40s prior to Cordoba's ownership will likely be around 16" in the lower bout, E-Type. Good luck in the hunt!

E-Type · Mar 14, 2023

adorshki said:
Hi E-type, welcome aboard!

Let's take the short answer first:
There was never a full 16" lower out F30. IIRC they topped out at about 15-3/4 inches at on point but were most often 15-1/1 to 15-1/2" lower bout.

"Yes". In that system the letters denoted body size and numbers denoted bling. "GF" equalled 16" lower bout F-body by definition and "JF" denoted 17" lower bout F-body. There was no "F30"-sized guitar at that time.

No. First one was the F40 with maple arch back, from '54- '63, then F47 came in with 'hog flatback. F40 returned ca '74, then George Gruhn came in with 2 new 16" F-bodies, F-44 and F-46, which soon became the "GF" series. Any model with an "F-4x" type model number is a 16" lower bout, as well as all GF's. There are also a couple of outliers in the F30ce, F35ce, and the F65ce, all of which were introduced when the F30 was on hiatus. So an early '90's F30ce is NOT an "F30" body.

There was also the "CV" series from Tacoma, caveats apply there so don't jump on one without checking with us first, especially if it's got a funny-looking bar-code sticker over the s/n.

Up until New Hartford in 2011, F40's had arched maple backs by definition. They were relatively low production and highly desirable, If you want 'hog, stick with the F47 family, examples of which were offered in maple and rosewood as well as 'hog, continuously from the mid '80's through close of New Hartford in 2014. They became the backbone of Guild's Acoustic Cutaway Electric family, thus, "F47ce". Also as mentioned, New Hartford F40's are 16" 'hog bodies.

Oxnard doesn't offer that 16" platform. Yes that's me you hear in the background blowing raspberries at 'em.

Such great info…Thanks!!!

jeffcoop · Mar 14, 2023

schoolie said:
I know this has been posted, but this is a video of John Oates playing the 1964 F-30 that was owned by MS John Hurt

I own this guitar's twin from 1964. John Oates plays a lot better than I do.

jfilm · Mar 14, 2023

Neal said:
My ‘74 F-30 is 15.25” across the lower bout, but that is only half the story. It is a very deep 5” at the end pin, an eight of an inch deeper than my ‘73 D-35.

Here they are together. E-Type, I just sent you a PM.

I also want to add that there was another variation during the transition period from the short scale F-30 to this long scale "jumbo" shape, that I haven't heard much talk about. I had a 1970 F-30 that had the old shape and short scale, but was very deep as with Neal's '74 (a little less at 4 3/4, and it didn't fit in the case that I now use for my '65 F-30). I also know that there are 1970 F-30s out there with the old shape and a long scale- here is Jake Wildwood's blog about one he had. He also talks about the extra depth on the body. So it seems that sometime in 1970 they started to make some with a deeper body than the 1960s F-30s, then they made a few with a deeper body and long scale, and finally they changed the body shape (and made the body a bit deeper as well).

adorshki · Mar 15, 2023

jfilm said:
I also want to add that there was another variation during the transition period from the short scale F-30 to this long scale "jumbo" shape, that I haven't heard much talk about. I had a 1970 F-30 that had the old shape and short scale, but was very deep as with Neal's '74 (a little less at 4 3/4, and it didn't fit in the case that I now use for my '65 F-30). I also know that there are 1970 F-30s out there with the old shape and a long scale- here is Jake Wildwood's blog about one he had. He also talks about the extra depth on the body. So it seems that sometime in 1970 they started to make some with a deeper body than the 1960s F-30s, then they made a few with a deeper body and long scale, and finally they changed the body shape (and made the body a bit deeper as well).

Classic Guild behavior for the period and great recap, thanks!! I've always wandered if there was something going on with the outline due to the F-112 being based on the F30 as well. It shows similar anomalies from that time, think @mavuser 's mentioned it before?

It made me wonder if they started using "new" body bucks for F-30's but kept using "old" ones for F-112's for a while, or vice-versa?

adorshki · Mar 15, 2023

Of course, no recap of F30 phenotypes is complete without reference to these little gems from roughly '77-82:

I'm a stinker, ain't i?

E-Type · Mar 15, 2023

adorshki said:
Of course, no recap of F30 phenotypes is complete without reference to these little gems from roughly '77-82:

I'm a stinker, ain't i?

Nice! Did they just bling it up with these? Or is there a more fundamental change?

Neal · Mar 15, 2023

Weren’t all of the G-shield F-30’s rosewood?

HeyMikey · Mar 15, 2023

If something matters to you it is always good to ask the seller for the exact measurements of the specific guitar. Sometimes they just pull specs off the interwebs rather than take the time to measure.

Even within the published “spec” for a particular model/date/facility there was always some level of variation due to the amount of hand work. This is especially true with neck/nut width, but also lower bout width and depth.

GGJaguar · Mar 15, 2023

HeyMikey said:
Sometimes they just pull specs off the interwebs rather than take the time to measure.

And sometimes those specs are inaccurate.

jfilm · Mar 15, 2023

Also I see that Jake Wildwood had a '69 F-30 - to me it looks like the body on that one is 4 3/4" deep. And this was one of the first 10 built in 1969. So I wonder if all 1969 F-30s had the deeper 4 3/4" body:

Compared to this example of a 1968 F-30 (serial AI 2095), which to my eyes has the shallower 4 1/4" depth:

So it would appear to me that 1969 is when the change started. I wonder if this coincided with a move in production for the F-30 from Hoboken to Westerly?

Nuuska · Mar 15, 2023

NOW THERE's that colour I mentioned few times on different discussions - soooooooo pretty - also w natural top - but that red on neck & body

Nuuska · Mar 15, 2023

adorshki said:
We gotta watch out for phase cancellation. I'll warble a little.

Don't worry - saves you from trouble and expense of getting a chorus-pedal for the mix . . .

E-Type · Mar 15, 2023

Nuuska said:
NOW THERE's that colour I mentioned few times on different discussions - soooooooo pretty - also w natural top - but that red on neck & body

My fav bursts have the edge of the top match the sides. As van der Rohe said, “God is in the details.”

bobouz · Mar 15, 2023

E-Type said:
Nice! Did they just bling it up with these? Or is there a more fundamental change?

Al’s dates are a little off on the fancier version, but yes, it was just blinged up with F-50 neck appointments. The first production F-30R was released (as with my example below) in 1973. The fretboard & bridge are ebony, with a Chesterfield headstock. This model was made from ‘73 to ‘75. In 1976, the F-50 style neck was added. The rosewood body appointments remained the same. This fancier version was produced from ’76 to ‘78. These should not be confused with Paul Simon’s custom 000-shaped F-30R from the ‘60s. Also note that the mahogany version of the small-jumbo shaped F-30 continued to be made through 1985.

bobouz · Mar 15, 2023

Neal said:
Weren’t all of the G-shield F-30’s rosewood?

Yes.

What the heck size is a F-30 anyway?

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