George Gruhn artilcle on the Pros & Cons of Collectors

california

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I don't know whether to be thrilled or disappointed every time I see a guitar that I already own, or want to own going up in price on GBase and eBay.

Yes, it is great to know that I was brilliant six months ago when I made a great score on a keeper, but it is dissheartening to know that if I want, say, a cherry burst Bluesbird to compliment my goldtop it will cost me twice what I paid for the first one.

Obviously true players out there have discovered what we on LTG have known all along: Guilds are great instruments; underpriced and underapreciated by the marketplace until a couple of things happend. First, out of our love for the brand guys like us started talking them up on the internet. Next, Gibson, the middle road guitar of choice was overrun by Taylor, and in response made the bonehead move of pricing their guitars through the stratosphere (forget the Taylor guys, they're a brand loyal as we are -- if Bob Taylor had chosen religion instead of luthiery he'd be leading the largest cult in the world today). For Martin fans feeling gunshy about plunikng down three grand for a new D-28 or $2200 for a D-18, $800 for a used D-40 and $1500 or less for a D-55 on eBay starts looking real good.

Pretty much all of us bought our Guilds, and continue to buy them, because we appreciated their sound, build, and value, that's why I bought my first one new in 1967 -- it was built better than a Martin, sounded better than a Martin, and the prices weren't even close (and yes West, it is a warhorse that has earned its stripes and shows it -- wouldn't have it any other way). Sound and build are consistant, so is it any surprise that they hold their value, and continue to creep up in price?

Not long ago, guitars were bought and sold locally, either in stores or through local want ads. Guys like Gruhn with large inventories dictated the market simply because they were the market. Today all that has changed. We are buying and selling in a global market, and price is dictated by supply and demand among individuals, not a few stores like Gruhn and Elderly (not necessarily a fair comparison, because Elderly consistantly underprices Gruhn on vintage instruments). For example, my '67 D-44. George Gruhn says that it is worth $1400, but he'd offer me about half that to buy it. Recent sales on eBay, when they show up, are in the $800-1100 range. That is the market, not Gruhn's evaluation, which by the way cost me $35.00.

Where I'm going with this is that we are the people who by bidding on eBay and buying and selling on Craigslist are setting the market. I think that now the stores are watching us, instead of the other way around. We determine value, and unfortunately for those of us still suffering from GAS, we are fortunately getting what we pay for.

A phrase came up in an earluer post: "The pain of the cost at time of purchase is long forgotten when enjoying the purchase over time." We need to remember that every time we pull the trigger on that one Guild that "completes" our collection -- at least until the next one shows up.
 

capnjuan

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Hi West:

In the last month, there were zero Guilds on Craigslist in greater SE Florida; Miami / Ft Lauderdale / Boca Raton / West Palm Beach. +/- 3 million people, no Guilds. To my knowledge, the nearest shop that has a used Guild is 130 miles away. I'd mention where it is but there are LTG'ers such as Dr. Izza Plumber lurking in the vicinity ready to poach (only kidding......sort of.......Love ya Dave!!).

California is on top of this thing; the 'market' will come back a little because through eBay / Craigslist / other e-sales, the guitars can change hands with less overhead.
 

Jeff

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capnjuan said:
Hi West:

In the last month, there were zero Guilds on Craigslist in greater SE Florida; Miami / Ft Lauderdale / Boca Raton / West Palm Beach. +/- 3 million people, no Guilds. To my knowledge, the nearest shop that has a used Guild is 130 miles away. .

How could anyone live in such a place.

Would seem this would be the only option [img:800:600]http://www.bekins.com/images/BVL/indexdesignshell2.jpg[/img]
 

Graham

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Jeff said:
How could anyone live in such a place.

Even the folks we keep sending down there to clear our roads for a spell make their way beck. :shock:
Florida1.jpg
 

capnjuan

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G: Where do you get those pics....outrageous... :lol:

Instead of Guilds in FL, we have stuff like this:
[IMG:150:107]http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/chriscraft03-5eq78lc.jpg[/img]
And this:
[IMG:150:120]http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/tiara01-4693t95pt.jpg[/img]
And this:
[IMG:150:98]http://img101.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/northcoastportd-4693tdkw1.jpg[/img]






Since I put down the golf clubs (I didn't play them much better than I play the guitar), I've bought and sold more of these than I've bought and sold guitars and yes, those are the Docks of Juan in pics 1 and 3; pic 2 is the Captain cruising just outside the Jupiter Inlet.

The boat in pic 3 was a victim of the run-up in fuel prices in 2005. It's ugly to admit that a person (like me for example) could buy a Bluesbird for what it cost to tank it up. Guitar prices? Two years ago it was cheaper to fly to CA round trip super-saver than it was to operate that boat for 2.5 hours.

The Chief Mate and I were stirred but not shaken; going to Miami Saturday morning to look at a 26 footer...B(oat)AS is another name for GAS; does Guild make a waterproof model?
 

West R Lee

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Cap,

I think they must all be in Washington with Jeff. Seems like he finds them on Craigslist up there everyday. I find very few on any of the Texas cities Craigslist.

West
 

capnjuan

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Well...Jeff is bragging about loading up a container with Guilds and bringing them down here to Fl to peddle to the snowbirds...I'd say he'd have better chance of making a buck or two swinging out your way.

Just how small is that town?
 

capnjuan

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G o' G: If you ever tire of collecting vintage Guild guitars, you can collect these:
[IMG:250:193]http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/woodie-4694oxthm.jpg[/img]
Click here for more pics:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... 74651&url=
This one is in Seattle; because of the cooler weather and water, home not only to Jeff but to many of the finest vintage wooden boats; many in NJ too. Like many other things including sensibilities, the wood rots out down here. Other than the few that are crewed down for the winter, very few wood boats in So FL. Owning and maintaining a wood boat is not for the financially faint at heart.

If I had them, I'd use a Martin, Larivee, or a Gibson for a boat paddle before I used a Guild...and buy fiberglass boats.
 

Jeff

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capnjuan said:
G: Where do you get those pics....outrageous... :lol:

Instead of Guilds in FL, we have stuff like this:
[IMG:150:107]http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/chriscraft03-5eq78lc.jpg[/img]
And this:
[IMG:150:120]http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/tiara01-4693t95pt.jpg[/img]
And this:
[IMG:150:98]http://img101.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/northcoastportd-4693tdkw1.jpg[/img]
http://b.im.craigslist.org/po/Ms/XFHc01 ... JFWj7n.jpg





Chief Mate and I were stirred but not shaken; going to Miami Saturday morning to look at a 26 footer...B(oat)AS is another name for GAS; does Guild make a waterproof model?

Ummm, Capn, Here's a few of today's boat listings from Seattle's Craigslist, I restricted my search to vessels including a weatherproofed Guild in the deal, a common practice here: [img:300:225]http://d.im.craigslist.org/hW/WI/OdRTRLfKwIjxE7j4hkbOHcCJToFe.jpg[/img] [img:300:225]http://b.im.craigslist.org/po/Ms/XFHc01D9eEx7Iob1Kh6hCXJFWj7n.jpg[/img]














[img:300:225]http://c.im.craigslist.org/Au/3n/iBKw4EvowbWVjlNen9iQtmmRSSvv.jpg[/img] [img:300:225]http://a.im.craigslist.org/1U/fF/h935TVt3st69OyIuHTrxt23JPHEv.jpg[/img]













[img:300:225]http://c.im.craigslist.org/v6/K7/yybSMQz9CWw4AdADxkTVCVwxp1hU.jpg[/img] [img:300:225]http://d.im.craigslist.org/VQ/Q6/aFxcYh0nLmrLnLG2EIIbkXCDhSuy.jpg[/img]
















We have our fair share of waterfront homes with docks, but some may be just a tad pricey: http://olineshaw.com/index.cfm?fuseacti ... ID=6777262

Be sure to check the view from the dock.

Of course, this place in on Lake Washington, access to Puget Sound & points North is a bit of a hassle, a few nice days & the locks often become a bit congested: [img:750:489]http://www.nwlink.com/~stevea/SEAIMAGE/LOCKS/locks211.jpg[/img]

[img:640:480]http://www.seattleyachtclub.org/OpeningDay/PictureOpeningDay.jpg[/img]
 

Jeff

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capnjuan said:
G o' G: If you ever tire of collecting vintage Guild guitars, you can collect these:
[IMG:250:193]http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/woodie-4694oxthm.jpg[/img]

If I had them, I'd use a Martin, Larivee, or a Gibson for a boat paddle before I used a Guild...and buy fiberglass boats.

They sell these here in the NW at most marine supply houses, Usually they are hanging up between the Life jackets & the crabtraps.

[img:300:225]http://a.im.craigslist.org/s7/h8/6rklbASpsleHJ4TfVs6bNsjf5Mwd.jpg[/img] [img:300:225]http://a.im.craigslist.org/ap/d2/msIXcx9RlKvhWD97Gsny1aqGHV4M.jpg[/img]
 

california

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capnjuan said:
G: Where do you get those pics....outrageous... :lol:

Instead of Guilds in FL, we have stuff like this:
[IMG:150:107]http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/chriscraft03-5eq78lc.jpg[/img]
And this:
[IMG:150:120]http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/tiara01-4693t95pt.jpg[/img]
And this:
[IMG:150:98]http://img101.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/04/24/northcoastportd-4693tdkw1.jpg[/img]







Since I put down the golf clubs (I didn't play them much better than I play the guitar), I've bought and sold more of these than I've bought and sold guitars and yes, those are the Docks of Juan in pics 1 and 3; pic 2 is the Captain cruising just outside the Jupiter Inlet.

The boat in pic 3 was a victim of the run-up in fuel prices in 2005. It's ugly to admit that a person (like me for example) could buy a Bluesbird for what it cost to tank it up. Guitar prices? Two years ago it was cheaper to fly to CA round trip super-saver than it was to operate that boat for 2.5 hours.

The Chief Mate and I were stirred but not shaken; going to Miami Saturday morning to look at a 26 footer...B(oat)AS is another name for GAS; does Guild make a waterproof model?

Hey Cap, wanna buy my Sea Ray? My wife's fallen in love with a 36' Trojan... says I can keep an amp on board!
 

West R Lee

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol


No Cialis for you Dave!

West
 

capnjuan

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I sadly have to agree with you Jeff: the PacNW has boats and decent guitars while SoFL only has boats and good prices on Depends undergarments.

However our local boats don't require heaters, full enclosures, anti-freeze, and the season is year-round. Next time, send me a pic of all three pleasure boats on Puget sound in December / January / February as taken through a fog-piercing lens...BTW: don't fall out of the boat into the 40 deg water either...

For the landlubbers; a 1996 35' Trojan at Marina del Rey CA Take a peek:
[IMG:250:188]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r106/capnjuan/35trojan.jpg[/img] http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... =1810&url=
Didn't see an Ovation / oar; must be extra. 220 gallon fuel capacity at say $3.75/gal means that every time it's tanked up, it's a Les Paul Studio or a 1990s JF30 but it has a 6.5kW generator; power up a whole band - a sweet, if not especially fast, day-tripper out to Catalina Island.
 

california

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Thanks for the heads up, Cap, that one's in our neighborhood, we'll check it out. The one we're looking at is in our marina, http://www.lbys.com/site_page_224/item_ ... dex_1.html. Exact same configuration, bit it is a repo, so the trick is trying to see just how low the bank will go to get it off their books.

Here's the Sea Ray -- comfy but getting old. [IMG:800:599]http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/california91207/LTG/gidget.jpg[/img]

The dingy stays with us, actually,Melvin the dog thinks it is his -- he lives for his dingy rides! [IMG:800:599]http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/california91207/LTG/DSCN0729.jpg[/img]
 

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capnjuan said:
I sadly have to agree with you Jeff: the PacNW has boats and decent guitars while SoFL only has boats and good prices on Depends undergarments.

However our local boats don't require heaters, full enclosures, anti-freeze, and the season is year-round. Next time, send me a pic of all three pleasure boats on Puget sound in December / January / February as taken through a fog-piercing lens...BTW: don't fall out of the boat into the 40 deg water either...

.

Capn,

I did take note of the "Lack of Canvas" on your baby tied up out back.
My boats have been much more humble, but they were tired when I traded them off.

My oldest Nephew works out on the Coast building Westport Yachts:

http://www.westportyachts.com/

Woefully, I have little personal experience in this league, price of fueling something like this would likely keep me in recreational money for a couple weeks. :shock:

Off season boating here can be a Gortex & wool mitten adventure.
Without the Swedish & Norwegian decendants here & dwindling Winter Salmon runs you might be correct in the 3 to 5 boats out.
 

The Guilds of Grot

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capnjuan said:
G o' G: If you ever tire of collecting vintage Guild guitars, you can collect these;

My ex brother-in-law had a vintage boat.
Sort of like this;
[IMG:799:444]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/unado/Racing-runabout.jpg[/img]










He sank a boat load of money in it to restore it.
He's from upstate New York where they run these
things in the lakes up there.
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He sold it shortly after the divorce!
 
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