It was never re-topped. All original.By the way, welcome aboard, @Steve Power . That's a nice entrance to LTG!
That's an attractive, early F-512. Do you know anything about when it was re-topped or who did the work? Take a mirror to the inside of that soundboard and you might find more information about it.
Really glad it's playable. Should be a honey to keep!
Ask and thy shall receive. My phone doesn't take the best photos but will give an ideaYes, Guild was even using EIR on some builds (Mark classicals IIRC?) even in the early '60's, which surprised me when I saw it, thought it would have been all Braz at the time.
We've had several discussions about what was considered desirable cosmetically at the time, and even though Braz is noted for its wild grain patterns, there was a lot of very straight-grained Braz at the time, too, so "straight-grain" EIR was seen as the desirable alternative.
At least that's how I remember @GuildFS4612CE (Jane) describing it. (Flagged so she can correct me if needed)
And interesting note, Guild had Braz suitable for fretboards and bridges well into the '70's and even early '80's for bridges IIRC?
I think @hansmoust knows how many were made. He has production records from Westerly, and keeps track of "field reports" by s/n, but yes, they didn't always note if an instrument was a "Special", sometimes not even on the label.
Hans, if you didn't know, wrote The Guild Guitar Book covering 1953-'78 and is probably the world's foremost expert on Guild history.
You're welcome (on behalf of everybody, it's that kind of place)!
Hate to seem pushy but can we see the back?
Steve, sorry... No offense, but I think that rosette and certainly the pickguard are not original. But, anyway, enjoy it!
Yep, that'd be the "straight-grained stuff" i was thinking of.
I read the discussion. The opinions that the finish and inlays were poorly done are rubbish for a start. How that judgement can be made from cell phone photos seems rather a big jump to me. The pick guard a hack job? I just went and had another close look. I'm no Guild expert but I've bought and sold a fair few high end guitars. Suffice to say I recognize quality when I see it. And I mean see it as in actually hold it in your hand and examine. Everything about the fit and finish of this guitar is immaculate. There are indications of age that cannot be duplicated except by age. If this guitar was not either original as from the Guild factory or re-made by Guild, whoever did the work should have been hired by Guild immediately. There is a lot that makes no sense for this to NOT be original. Still, I'll try to contact Hans Moust and hope he can enlighten. I'll post the result, if any. If I can't get any info from him I'll take it to our local, internationally known, vintage guitar store.
Wisest move you could make if you simply want to confirm the truth. I get what you mean about quality work, but it shouldn't be presented as original if it's not. Like you, discerning buyers will judge it accordingly with the understanding it may represent the best possible recovery of a severely damaged instrument. (My guess).
Staamped Dec 1 1972 with a C in front of the date.
Ultimately, simply enjoying the guitar is what I will do. My statement that opinions on the construction and finish are hack jobs are rubbish was prompted by those opinions being solely based on a couple of bad photos,which are not even close ups, and that somehow those opinions are so much more valid than what I believe to be true having the guitar actually in hand and eyeballing every inch of it up close up in good light. There was even a post stating that no "educated person" on this board would ever have bought it. I find both those positions a little arrogant.
I'm really hoping to hear back from Hans Moust after the weekend. Seems like his opinion is the only one that would be accepted by the naysayers. If I don't hear from him I'll take it to Austin Vintage Guitars. Not sure if they would even have detailed knowledge of what this guitar is about but they could certainly confirm whether or not the guitar is original.Wisest move you could make if you simply want to confirm the truth. I get what you mean about quality work, but it shouldn't be presented as original if it's not. Like you, discerning buyers will judge it accordingly with the understanding it may represent the best possible recovery of a severely damaged instrument. (My guess).
Actually kind of surprised Hans didn't chime n on that last thread about this one, so maybe he really doesn't know?
Anyway I simply applaud the effort to use all the available resources.
Just in case it's handy, Hans' website:
https://www.guitarchives.nl/
Not sure why you seem to be angry and everybody just want to help you...
I have no idea what the "C" before the stamped date might indicate... but it isn't the first time I have heard/seen it. Two of my early '70s Guilds, a '71 D-44 and '72 D-35, had letters stamped before their top brace dates, an "N" and a "P" (?), respectively. I asked Hans about them once, and IIRC, he didn't know what they might signify (there was a thread on this earlier this year... I did not search for it).
I am very sorry you feel this way, and I am sorry we might have burst your balloon and spoiled your Christmas morning feeling. But, collectively, the members of this board have seen a lot of Guild guitars, and know a lot of info about Guilds that isn't found in books... and mysteries, such as posed by your F-512, intrigue us... (note, we were discussing your guitar before you even bought it), and, at least in my case, referring to the pick guard and rosette only, my opinions are NOT
They are based on the observation that the rosette and pick guard are not at all typical of a Guild guitar from this era (the fingerboard inlay is not atypical for an F-512 from that era). T earliest abalone-inlaid rosette's I can recall appeared on the D-80s and D-70s from the early 1980's, and the pick guard shape does not match ANYTHING I have ever seen from the Guild factory. If they were originally factory-installed, I would have expected the label to denote this by calling it an "F-512 Special." Moreover, the label also does not indicate that the guitar had sunburst finish when it left the factory (usually denoted with "SB" or "Sunburst" following the model name).
Well, when you rote the book and have the production records.....very few people profess to know much about Guild history in the first place. Time and again he's explained a mystery like this thanks to the info he's accumulated in 30 or so years.
Austin Vintage has been mentioned favorably here IIRC.
I for one don't think the fingerboard and bridge are replacements, or I would have mentioned it. You're right, if they were undamaged they'd be perfectly re-usable. And as to "Why", I can only assume it was due to damage.
So far that should be good news, but there is a possible if far-fetched explanation: that the bracing was re-used.
And not sure how I implied the whole guitar was damaged, only meant to say the top could have been damaged beyond re-use . Maybe the owner simply wanted whole wood and not repaired wood?
I think some of the comments were given "casually" and could have been better worded, but as a new member you can't be expected to know some of the guys who've been here for years and their "talking styles".
An that's only important if originality is an important element in your decision. For the market at large, with an instrument of that caliber, it's absolutely a factor in valuation.You could still be right!!!
Sorry about that but appreciate you've been pretty cool throughout, no snark, "just the facts ma'am."
I can't seem to scroll back to my original post but I can tell you it was after I received the guitar, not before I bought it. Until I posted I had no reason to think it was not as described to me. If some opinions were presented as questions instead of dead certainty perhaps I would have not felt ganged up on. The negatives were a bit overwhelming and I'm far from being fragile.
Understood. Thanks for staying cool. It's occurred to me in past that perhaps new members are accustomed to a more "snarky" atmosphere that sees to be prevalent on a lot of web sites, so they have the subliminal expectation this place will be the same, but most catch on to the genuine friendliness here.
It was me, I meant the size and width of the segments. Not in a derogatory way, but simply in comparison to how they used it when they brought it in to regular use:
Funny you should mention that, been bitten by that very truism myself re Guild more than once. It's one reason I don't outright discount the top and even the rosette may be original. Especially when it comes to Guild, "Never say never". You're absolutely right, so I'm just detailing the little things that years sightings here have ingrained in me (and most of us long-timers)
Right, we've seen reports of those from Guild too, (confirmed by Hans), but IIRC there was no way it would get a regular label and s/n stamp in that case, barring dishonesty. The fact the s/n coincides with records also lends feasibility to it having at least been originally built as a "regular" (warranteed) Guild guitar, regardless of what might have happened after.
Right. He may also be on a trip with limited access, he does travel frequently, seems like once a year or so. I'd expect him to at least say something even if it's "nothing". One thing he strenuously avoids is speculation, so it'll be hard facts if he's got 'em.
He's mentioned in past he prefers his website because his mailbox here fills up. That may have changed with new forum software, so you could ping him here sing the letter icon next to your user name a top of forum (I'm on a desktop). Enter "HansMoust" (it'll even autocomplete) for recipients.
Yeah, I at least didn't mean to imply it was shoddy, just "not in character".
I'll aggrandize myself as community spokesperson in saying "You're welcome" on behalf of the group.
Thanks for the info on contacting Hans Moust. I used to live in Holland, seven years. Played with some people he may know. It's summer holiday time over there. The Dutch travel everywhere.Understood. Thanks for staying cool. It's occurred to me in past that perhaps new members are accustomed to a more "snarky" atmosphere that sees to be prevalent on a lot of web sites, so they have the subliminal expectation this place will be the same, but most catch on to the genuine friendliness here.
It was me, I meant the size and width of the segments. Not in a derogatory way, but simply in comparison to how they used it when they brought it in to regular use:
Here, for example, is what I think may be the most outrageous Guild ever built, cosmetically:
From this thread:
https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/index.php?threads/rick-nielsens-merle-travis.209492/
Take that headstock work. Yep, there's the MOP, but except for the "bar, all the work is delicate, and note the size of the binding's red/white sections, and the adjacent b/w/b/w binding strip.
According to the Guild Guitar Book that's a rare example of an instrument that was built completely to the customer's specs, even the artwork and colors and that's the wildest one-off p/g I've ever seen from them. Note however it's not plain and the overall theme is harmonious. (Not to imply yours isn't, but it's not as delicately detailed. For one thing, I think the rosette would at least have received the surround inlays which are preety much GUild signature details, varying by model and era.
IIRC that work was done by Carlo Greco, one of Guild's rising luthier stars at the time.
Funny you should mention that, been bitten by that very truism myself re Guild more than once. It's one reason I don't outright discount the top and even the rosette may be original. Especially when it comes to Guild, "Never say never". You're absolutely right, so I'm just detailing the little things that years sightings here have ingrained in me (and most of us long-timers)
Right, we've seen reports of those from Guild too, (confirmed by Hans), but IIRC there was no way it would get a regular label and s/n stamp in that case, barring dishonesty. The fact the s/n coincides with records also lends feasibility to it having at least been originally built as a "regular" (warranteed) Guild guitar, regardless of what might have happened after.
Right. He may also be on a trip with limited access, he does travel frequently, seems like once a year or so. I'd expect him to at least say something even if it's "nothing". One thing he strenuously avoids is speculation, so it'll be hard facts if he's got 'em.
He's mentioned in past he prefers his website because his mailbox here fills up. That may have changed with new forum software, so you could ping him here sing the letter icon next to your user name a top of forum (I'm on a desktop). Enter "HansMoust" (it'll even autocomplete) for recipients.
I wouldn't worry too much about the pics right away, but simply ask if he's got any info related that s/n which is supposed to be a '72 F512. You could mention several folks on the forum have mentioned their concerns about the top, and explaining you couldn't attach 'em at Guitars Galore, would he like pics? (He might surprise you). I would point out you're not concerned with an appraisal so much as any info related to the guitar you now own. He's very sympathetic to actual owners.
Yeah, I at least didn't mean to imply it was shoddy, just "not in character".
I'll aggrandize myself as community spokesperson in saying "You're welcome" on behalf of the group.
Now you want a good laugh? The more I look at your guitar the more I could believe that rosette could be original. It was only the size of the segments that caught my eye initially.
