ReevesRd
Senior Member
Glad to see some action on the USA-made models.
I wonder if we will see more additions? We can always hope.
I wonder if we will see more additions? We can always hope.
Guild reboots the Standard series!
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Bill, your comments inspired me to do a little reading. I found this Breedlove article about the different types of woods called mahogany in the industry (including Khaya) pretty interesting.For starts, just got their email today. I have to say I like the "Pacific Burst," sort of like the only sunburst that Martin
has actually gotten right (and attractive!).
But staying on the Martin-theme, and having been here before, "African Mahogany?" Com'on, man-up and say what it really is,
(like Martin with Sapele, et al) instead of hiding behind some made-up term. No real mahogany grows in Africa, though in deference
to Toto the "rains may fall there..." Say what it is, Khayla, Limba, Korina, whatever. Then, when you fall into a cache like rumour has that
Huss & Dalton just has, you can say what it really is and then charge a premium (!!!) because you got the real goods.
That "striped" khayla or whatever is in fact very pretty, but it ain't mahogany.
Maybe this should go to ROTD thread
Maybe Guild is assuming (perhaps wrongly) that most people don’t care about the difference between “genuine mahogany” and “true mahogany.” I also didn’t know that, to be very strict, the only wood actually called mahogani is from Cuba and has been banned for a long time now. Food for thought and a new topic for me
it’s good at least that it is more sustainable.
SFIV1967
Venerated Member
I like that picture from the mentiond Breedlove article:
"Let’s recap, wood from Swietenia trees is called “genuine mahogany,” wood from Khaya trees is called “true mahogany” or African mahogany, and they’re all relatively closely related, though not in the same genus."
"The broad consensus among luthiers, however, is that comparable guitars made from African and Honduran mahogany have very similar sonic profiles. They shine in mid-range frequencies—the sweet-spot for acoustic guitars. They both produce warm, woody tones with exceptional projection and balance. Their sound is often described as clean, focused, and crisp."
Ralf
"Let’s recap, wood from Swietenia trees is called “genuine mahogany,” wood from Khaya trees is called “true mahogany” or African mahogany, and they’re all relatively closely related, though not in the same genus."
"The broad consensus among luthiers, however, is that comparable guitars made from African and Honduran mahogany have very similar sonic profiles. They shine in mid-range frequencies—the sweet-spot for acoustic guitars. They both produce warm, woody tones with exceptional projection and balance. Their sound is often described as clean, focused, and crisp."
Ralf
Guild has been moving to Khaya (African Mahogany) for a while now. Honduran wasn't allowed to ship through customs in Europe even as far back as around 2011 in New Hartford. Some of the guitars they shipped there (perhaps all?) used African (Khaya) as a substitute. I don't think it was widely discussed or even noted in the catalogs, but it was necessary.
That's how it is, guys. Totally agree with Boneman that calling it Khaya would just be confusing to the customers. They're being quite clear that it's African and not Honduran. To me this is reminiscent of the situation with the type of rosewood (Brazilian vs. East Indian, as the most obvious example).
That's how it is, guys. Totally agree with Boneman that calling it Khaya would just be confusing to the customers. They're being quite clear that it's African and not Honduran. To me this is reminiscent of the situation with the type of rosewood (Brazilian vs. East Indian, as the most obvious example).
davenumber2
Member
Similar to how Martin uses the term "select hardwood", they probably use African mahogany as a catch-all term so they can switch to a similar species based on availability and not have to update specs. Just my guess.For starts, just got their email today. I have to say I like the "Pacific Burst," sort of like the only sunburst that Martin
has actually gotten right (and attractive!).
But staying on the Martin-theme, and having been here before, "African Mahogany?" Com'on, man-up and say what it really is,
(like Martin with Sapele, et al) instead of hiding behind some made-up term. No real mahogany grows in Africa, though in deference
to Toto the "rains may fall there..." Say what it is, Khayla, Limba, Korina, whatever. Then, when you fall into a cache like rumour has that
Huss & Dalton just has, you can say what it really is and then charge a premium (
That "striped" khayla or whatever is in fact very pretty, but it ain't mahogany.
Maybe this should go to ROTD thread
Walter Broes
Enlightened Member
"African Mahogany" is an industry-wide term now, not Just Guild. Actual real mahogany has become a custom shop/boutique/small builder thing.
AcornHouse
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Unless I miss my guess, my 2021 D20 VSB is constructed completely of Khaya. I connected with it immediately in the shop and fell in love with the sound. Never owned a guitar that feels more "alive" in my hands. Whatever they're doing with that stuff, I'm ok with it!
As far as I know, the industry term "african mahogany" is a euphemism for Khaya. Khaya looks like the traditional mahogany, and Sapele (which is also sometimes referred to as African Mahogany) has a tendency to show striped/ribboned grain pattern to a greater extent than Cuban/Honduras mahogany or Khaya. With all that being said, trying to guess at (because that is what it is, a guess) a guitar's tonal quality based on the tonewood used on the back and sides is a sure way to drive yourself nuts. Just play the guitar, and see if you like it. And then determine if you like it enough to buy it or not, or keep it or send it back or not. Rejecting a guitar without listening to it, just on the basis of what the back and side wood used will cause you to miss out on some good guitars.
I say again, 80-90% of a guitars sound is from the top, with all the other factors being bracingmaterials and pattern, bridge materials, and yes, back and sides.
I say again, 80-90% of a guitars sound is from the top, with all the other factors being bracingmaterials and pattern, bridge materials, and yes, back and sides.
Guilderland21
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Interesting to see that the prices for the D-40 and F-40 Standard are closer to the Traditional series than to the previous non-Traditional iterations of those models. Looking at Sweetwater and CME, it seems like those models are about $2400-2500 versus about $1800 for the previous versions and $2800 for the Traditionals.
Wouldn't be too surprised if they have been wanting to raise prices anyway and the introduction of the new models is a good time. The D-50 Standard is in any case much less than a D-55.
Wouldn't be too surprised if they have been wanting to raise prices anyway and the introduction of the new models is a good time. The D-50 Standard is in any case much less than a D-55.
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In the graphic @SFIV1967 referred to it’s shown that mahogany, African mahogany and sapele are all in the same family, however Sapele is a separate genus and farther outside the realm of acceptance as being mahogany than either the Cuban / Mexican / Honduran genus or the African genus. Makes sense, even a layperson like me can tell that Sapele doesn’t look the same as mahogany. Which I guess is probably why when guitar makers use it they tend to call it Sapele. Very interesting!
adorshki
Reverential Member
"True" Mahogany is specifically reserved to the Swietenia family, "African Mahogany" doesn't qualify on that basis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swietenia
Well now, are you actually expecting honesty in guitar wood descriptions? That would be great, but I don't think that guitar company marketing departments are all of a sudden going to change course and be straightforward and above board. It is actually simpler and more honest to write "Khaya" or "Sapele" in a wood description than it is "African Mahogany" (becuase real Mahogany, as in the Swietenia family, doesn't grow in Africa), but I don't see it happening any time soon, just as I don't see guitar companies writing "plywood" or "Laminate" for guitars that have laminated back and sides.
GGJaguar
Reverential Member
And then there's utile aka sipo (Entandrophragma utile) another mahogany-like species from west Africa that is in the same family, but different genus as true mahogany. Like Khaya, it has similar properties to true mahogany and Martin has been using it for some time now (at least 10 years).
One thing that was mentioned earlier that I think I will miss in the new Standard series is the cream binding. That and the rosewood headstock were some nice touches in New Hartford.
However, looking at the fabulous group photo, I think the sunburst(s) really pop with the white binding, and maybe work better with a black headstock. Dunno...
Gosh, this is really exciting. I remember feeling jazzed like this when our Let's Meet Guild crowd got the first public showing of New Hartford's Standard series.
However, looking at the fabulous group photo, I think the sunburst(s) really pop with the white binding, and maybe work better with a black headstock. Dunno...
Gosh, this is really exciting. I remember feeling jazzed like this when our Let's Meet Guild crowd got the first public showing of New Hartford's Standard series.
I hope you guys aren't cynical about this. I don't really see this whole thing as dishonest, do you? I mean, it is what it is. Back in the '60s, a "rosewood" guitar might've been Brazilian, for example, but nowadays no way.
It used to bug me when the GAD/100-series MIC guitars were calling their bodies mahogany when it clearly wasn't Honduran... Truly I don't know what they used, and that's what kind of bugged me. If they'd said it was African mahogany or even Sapele (which is what I suspect they were using) I would've felt better about it. But, the MIC guitars are what kept Guild alive for several years while the market tanked out.
I think if you're looking for total "honesty" about the wood, you will get that from the individual luthier shops who are featuring all kinds of alternate woods. These guys are where the true innovation (or at least promulgation) of the woods comes from.
And, the big makers, even Martin, have to be very careful about alienating their traditional customers and not confusing them.
Westerly Wood
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Satin finish? Hybrid nitro/satin finish? Well, hey, at least they are producing some new Guild USAs...
- Featuring a smooth closed-pore texture and a hand sprayed soft, silky coating the Vintage Gloss nitro finish gives each guitar a worn-in vintage feel and tone with a sleek, modern appearance.