Guild reboots the Standard series!

[casey2048]

"True" Mahogany is specifically reserved to the Swietenia family, "African Mahogany" doesn't qualify on that basis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swietenia

I'm not an expert, just quoting what I've read, but per the Breedlove explainer I linked to before, they state that the Swietenia genus is called "Genuine Mahogany" which includes the Cuban, Mexican, and Honduran species - whereas the industry calls the Khaya genus "True Mahogany" and that includes four different species. According to the graphic they shared Sapele is again in a different genus (Entandrophragma, quite a mouthful) but farther removed from being accepted as mahogany because it doesn't have enough shared characteristics.

https://www.wood-database.com/wp-content/uploads/mahogany-families.pdf

 

[casey2048]

Check this out! Pretty cool, from the wood database ... 10x endgrain of Honduran, African, and Sapele. Apparently one of the most reliable ways to tell them apart. https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/mahogany-mixups-the-lowdown/

 

[GGJaguar]

Hybrid nitro/satin finish?

It's a secret (environmentally friendly) elixir.

 

[Christopher Cozad]

I find it interesting that in the early days Guild charged a premium for blonde finishes, with the burst being the base price. Usually because they could use less than perfect woods and hide visual defects with the color.

Now it’s the burst that are charged extra.

Things have changed...

 

[Christopher Cozad]

I have worked with both Honduran Mahogany as well as African Mahogany (Khaya). A visual feature of Honduran Mahogany that is rarely (if ever) found in Khaya is the tiered or "storied" rays, usually called "ripple marks" (seen in Casey's left-most photo). I can add that, while Khaya can resemble Honduran Mahogany, it can can also be visually distinctive (not in a bad way). Khaya is a bit heavier and harder, and it "moves" more (is subject to greater shrinkage) than Honduran Mahogany. I anticipate we will see much more of it in production guitars.

 

[casey2048]

I have worked with both Honduran Mahogany as well as African Mahogany (Khaya). A visual feature of Honduran Mahogany that is rarely (if ever) found in Khaya is the tiered or "storied" rays, usually called "ripple marks" (seen in Casey's left-most photo). I can add that, while Khaya can resemble Honduran Mahogany, it can can also be visually distinctive (not in a bad way). Khaya is a bit heavier and harder, and it "moves" more (is subject to greater shrinkage) than Honduran Mahogany. I anticipate we will see much more of it in production guitars.

I love hearing about this, super interesting. Thank you for the info!

 

[casey2048]

Meaning what, they cut down on the polishing steps to save cost? Make sense for a no frills series.

They should call it PIY for polish-it-yourself

 

[Christopher Cozad]

... Ignore the TRC; that's my own. The original is black plastic.

Charlie, I am at a loss for words...

Where is the other TRC screw?

And just look at the condition of that poor, filthy nut!

(All is forgiven, of course, if you are full-time auto mechanic busking on weekends for extra cash to make rent and become a music sensation. If that is the case, you may want to drill a hole, randomly placed, through the headstock.)

 

[Bill Ashton]

Ah, I kicked the wasps' nest, for which I only partially apologize, but a question...maybe Chaz can answer best...shortly after the NH Standard series was introduced, Carl had what I thought was labeled as a D40 Standard at Union Music. The finished body looked almost grey. I think I was told it was Honduran Mahogany. Did I misunderstand?

It was a wonderful guitar, and came very close to buying it, but alas it gets chocked up to "one that got away."

 

[Br1ck]

We see the trend toward the manufacturers trying to make credible guitars while keeping costs down. Brands like IRIS and Waterloo don't even do gloss, and Martin's recent satin D 18s are formidable competition. As long as they continue making gloss models too I'm all for it. And yes, Honduran mahogany is now a premium wood.

 

[adorshki]

Things have changed...

And when they're road-worn the price triples.

 

[adorshki]

I'm not an expert, just quoting what I've read, but per the Breedlove explainer I linked to before, they state that the Swietenia genus is called "Genuine Mahogany" which includes the Cuban, Mexican, and Honduran species - whereas the industry calls the Khaya genus "True Mahogany" and that includes four different species. According to the graphic they shared Sapele is again in a different genus (Entandrophragma, quite a mouthful) but farther removed from being accepted as mahogany because it doesn't have enough shared characteristics.

https://www.wood-database.com/wp-content/uploads/mahogany-families.pdf

Think we've seen different interpretations of the terms "True" and "Genuine, but I think we're agreed on the basic concept.
Also occurs to me the distinctions may be based more on workability than timbre differences, and why African Mahogany is in the "Good enough" category: workability.

Pau Ferro was going to be the new "big thing" 30 years ago until the workability issues became apparent.

 

[chazmo]

Charlie, I am at a loss for words...

Where is the other TRC screw?

And just look at the condition of that poor, filthy nut!

(All is forgiven, of course, if you are full-time auto mechanic busking on weekends for extra cash to make rent and become a music sensation. If that is the case, you may want to drill a hole, randomly placed, through the headstock.)

HAHAHA! Nice to see you too, Chris!

Just so you know, and not to shift blame or anything.... and as much as I love catching s**t for a dirty nut... That's how it came to me. I haven't had a chance to show it some love yet.

 

[casey2048]

Pau Ferro was going to be the new "big thing" 30 years ago until the workability issues became apparent.

I remember Pau Ferro! Still see it around sometimes.

 

[GGJaguar]

I remember Pau Ferro! Still see it around sometimes.

It's mainly used for fingerboards.

 

[AcornHouse]

It's mainly used for fingerboards.

I used it in my electric upright bass build for the fingerboard and tailpiece. It's VERY dense and heavy. But wonderful otherwise.

 

[casey2048]

For my own curiosity I just looked up the specs of my very first guitar from when I was a teen - Yamaha FG441s-12. Solid spruce top, Rosewood fingerboard and bridge, nato neck, ovangkol back and sides! A motley mix.

 

[Bill Ashton]

I think Ovangkol was supposed to be the "Rosewood substitute," like Sapele was supposed to be the "Mahaogany substitute." Perhaps they are not "was" but "IS." Not bad woods, probably sound great, my beef is call-it-like-it-is. Martin and Taylor have, Guild, et tu?

 

[davenumber2]

It's mainly used for fingerboards.

I have a Washburn RSG200 that has Pao Ferro back and sides. Sounds lovely.

 

[kostask]

I hope you guys aren't cynical about this. I don't really see this whole thing as dishonest, do you? I mean, it is what it is. Back in the '60s, a "rosewood" guitar might've been Brazilian, for example, but nowadays no way.

It used to bug me when the GAD/100-series MIC guitars were calling their bodies mahogany when it clearly wasn't Honduran... Truly I don't know what they used, and that's what kind of bugged me. If they'd said it was African mahogany or even Sapele (which is what I suspect they were using) I would've felt better about it. But, the MIC guitars are what kept Guild alive for several years while the market tanked out.

I think if you're looking for total "honesty" about the wood, you will get that from the individual luthier shops who are featuring all kinds of alternate woods. These guys are where the true innovation (or at least promulgation) of the woods comes from.
A
And, the big makers, even Martin, have to be very careful about alienating their traditional customers and not confusing them.

I am cynical about everything, pretty much. This is just one more example of dishonest by the marketing department of guitar companies. African Mahogany doesn't exist. Swietania simply doesn't grow in Africa, so by definition, African Mahogany cannot exist. Descriptions could be of the form "an African hardwood that is (tonally) similar to Cuban/Honduras/Tropical Mahogany". Your own example of the GAD 100 series is a perfect example. In fact, should somebody have decided to make an issue of it to the extent of starting legal proceedings, they probably would have won in just about any court of law, as the guitar was said to have a mahogany body, with no mahogany in sight. My whole point is that they called the body mahogany in order to get the buyer to believe that it was indeed mahogany, WHICH IT WAS NOT. How difficult would it have been to call the body "Sapele" (or whatever wood species was being used)? It would have been far more honest to the buyer, and would have eliminated any possibility of legal action. As it is, it was strictly done to gain more sales because Mahogany was a known tone wood, and people were generally familiar with its tonal properties.